Declined Salmon's Unmute/Un-Guard Ban Appeal (1 Viewer)

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salmon1

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SourceBans Ban URL: https://bans.panda-community.com/index.php?p=commslist&searchText=STEAM_0:0:151144304&Submit=Search
Name of your Banned Steam Account: salmon
Steam ID 32 : https://steamcommunity.com/id/berserklee/
Date and Time of the Ban: 2017-2018
Reason about the Ban: I assume micspam / mfk
Admin that Banned you: Jimjo, Husky, iceviet, Zushikikato Wolfeh, and Madact.
Why should you receive a unban for the ban / gag / mute / teamban: The last mute I had was 3 years ago, I think that is long enough for someone to reform, and that is the case for me. Since I was ungagged (5-7) a few months ago I haven't made any offenses and I intend to keep it that way, I believe I can be a competent and productive guard and by now I am familiar with the rules, I waited the minimum time I was told to wait until since my last appeal and I think I deserve (even though I've been told no more) 1 more chance. I would be very appreciative even if it was just an Unmute, and I would wait at least half a year for my next un-guard ban appeal (under the circumstances that It's just unmuted and not both an unmute and an un-guard ban). Thank you to all the admins that work hard to stop rule breakers from continuing to break rules, but I think that 3 years is far too long of a punishment, and that it has worked well enough.
 
Since I'm listed as one of the admins it defaults to me and I'm currently away. I've sent you an PM about this but figured it'd be best to post here to.
Is there any previous appeals I should be aware of? I haven't looked at this case at all so when I get time this weekend it'll be quicker for me if all information is here.
 
I wouldn't be getting your hopes up about getting unmuted anytime soon pal. Although this case may fall to madact, you frequent the jailbreak server quite often and I'm well aware of your previous behavior towards others in the past and as of late on jailbreak so I do think I and other jailbreak admins get a pretty big say in on this before anything happens.

The last mute I had was 3 years ago, I think that is long enough for someone to reform, and that is the case for me. Since I was ungagged (5-7) a few months ago I haven't made any offenses and I intend to keep it that way, I believe I can be a competent and productive guard and by now I am familiar with the rules, I waited the minimum time I was told to wait until since my last appeal and I think I deserve (even though I've been told no more) 1 more chance.
Clearly that was proven not true just a few months when you exploded in the shoutbox at some of the jailbreak players during this appeal https://www.panda-community.com/threads/unmute-appeal-again.24123/#post-116701 And although you did come back with an apology I still have doubts about it being genuine based on the circumstances including your recent
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Ive seen cases like yours where a forum ban has happened to guys who've said far softer things and yet your also somehow still not gagged. Therefore I consider you even lucky to be here and even appealing at all but here we are.

I would be very appreciative even if it was just an Unmute, and I would wait at least half a year for my next un-guard ban appeal (under the circumstances that It's just unmuted and not both an unmute and an un-guard ban). Thank you to all the admins that work hard to stop rule breakers from continuing to break rules, but I think that 3 years is far too long of a punishment, and that it has worked well enough.
Again, very much doubt your chances there considering what's been going on as of late. I will admit however I do see a difference between now and just a few months ago but as of late this still is pretty unacceptable. You need to get those anger issues or whatever in check and stop spiting at people on the server before we can start talking about removing mutes or teambans.

see you around
 
[I don't know if I'm allowed to post here, the rules on who can post where still confuses me. If this is improper please delete it, but I think this is relevant.]

Welcome to "Opinions Nobody Asked For", I'm your host Dr. Meatloaf

Coming from a position of bias (I definitely consider myself and Salmon to be friends) I believe the above post is very misleading and shows how much the JB team (or at least Bambi) isn't being objective. I don't have enough information to decide whether or not Salmon should be un-muted however I do have enough info to dispute some of the evidence in the previous post.

The gripe I have stems from what Bambi describes as Salmon's recent "Behavior" which uses screenshots of his chat logs to show why he shouldn't be unmuted.
I am going to go through each chatlog picture posted and discuss them.

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The biggest pieces of "toxicity" I see is him calling ar_card "a virgin," telling him to "shut up," calling him a "dumbass," and saying that he is "making shit so much worse for yourself" by talking. During this entire conversation, he is speaking only to ar_card (except when he says "lmao meatloaf" because I tell good jokes.)
For some background, ar_card is one of the worst, most toxic players on this server. He was actually gagged earlier today by Asper for insulting. During this time he was saying stuff so awful it would have gotten him gagged and muted without question (He was talking in both voice and chat whereas Salmon is obviously only responding in chat.)
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As you can see from ar_card's chat log he told salmon he was a virgin twice, salmon responds by saying "as if this guy isn't a virgin" which in context is honestly a pretty logical response in my opinion and isn't very toxic. He then tells ar_card to "shut up" and that he is "making shit so much worse for yourself" by talking. Seeing as this guy is making jokes about having sex with 12 and 14-year-old girls I think anybody can realize that that's also an appropriate response. Salmon calling the player a "dumbass" is in response to him saying on mic "only virgins play tf2 jailbreak" which is similar to the other statement he later follows it up in chat with "keep telling yourself that tf2 jailbreak player." It's probably not the nicest response he could have given but seeing as this guy is a total POS I think we can all probably agree it was deserved. Not only was the other player being way more toxic but everything salmon said wasn't toxic, and was just a sincere response to this awful person.

Bambi definitely wasn't online during this time (seeing as ar_card would have been gagged and muted in a second) it's clear from this first post that he's just searching through Salmon's chat log to find whatever he can on the guy. If Bambi were online I think he probably would have found what Salmon said reasonable too given the context.

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As for this calling somebody, a "moron" is hardly worth making a fuss over especially when the other warden is clearly breaking the rules by denying DR. The fact that this was used as evidence further highlights how bias this post is.

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This one has the same problem as the last one "stay mad son" which isn't really toxic. I mean we are playing a videogame where kids get mad often and I'm certain many admins have said similar things to troll kids who are being ragey.

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I don't have much to say about this, he was spamming and he definitely shouldn't have been. All I can say is that he was clearly talking to a warden who was refusing to give a repeat and trying to say it more in chat in order to get the guy's attention. Still, the decision to repeal a 3 year mute should not hinge on this type of chat spam which would usually get a minimal gag at best.

I don't know what happened on the forums a few months ago as I wasn't active on the forums at the time. If you guys decide to base the appeal on that incident it would probably make more sense because since Bambi decided to search through Salmon's chat log and this was all he found it's clear he has no current behavior issues (excluding the one incident of him spamming "repeat.") The reason I made this response is that I don't think any of these chat logs, possibly excluding the last one, should be used as evidence in this appeal.

I play jailbreak often, and ALL the admins are honestly amazing especially compared to what we've had in the past (including Bambi he's definitely a goodmin) but I really felt the need to point out the problems with the last post, and I hope you guys will look at my response factually despite the fact that I am also biased. I sincerely hope that this appeal is handled by Madact or another admin who isn't a part of jailbreak. From Bambi's previous post I get the impression that the jailbreak admins might have too much history with salmon to handle this report without letting personal bias get in the way. I can't say for sure if salmon should be unmuted as the admins know more about the issue than I do (especially because I don't know what happened with the forums incident) but if a non-jailbreak admin handled this appeal and still decided to decline it my mind would be put at ease.
 
Coming from a position of bias (I definitely consider myself and Salmon to be friends) I believe the above post is very misleading and shows how much the JB team (or at least Bambi) isn't being objective. I don't have enough information to decide whether or not Salmon should be un-muted however I do have enough info to dispute some of the evidence in the previous post.
For the record, my response is not influenced what so ever by the person appealing. I've never even had a proper conversation with the involved party and my biggest encounter was defending other jailbreak players (friendly lads under fire for reporting people if I recall) from his nasty spite on the forums not so long ago on that appeal. It's also very hard to take your post serious considering you start off by admitting to having a bias of your own. However, I'll be glad to explain a couple things for you in hopes you'll at least understand why your friend is in this position. And before I start as a reminder, salmon has 11 comm blocks which is unusual considering we start handing permanent punishments when people are at their 6th and beyond. In this case they consist of micspam, insulting, deadtalking, and capspam. Therefore, this user should be well aware of what flies around here and what doesn't.


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The biggest pieces of "toxicity" I see is him calling ar_card "a virgin," telling him to "shut up," calling him a "dumbass," and saying that he is "making shit so much worse for yourself" by talking. During this entire conversation, he is speaking only to ar_card (except when he says "lmao meatloaf" because I tell good jokes.)
For some background, ar_card is one of the worst, most toxic players on this server. He was actually gagged earlier today by Asper for insulting. During this time he was saying stuff so awful it would have gotten him gagged and muted without question (He was talking in both voice and chat whereas Salmon is obviously only responding in chat.)
Two wrongs don't make a right. I don't care what other people are saying, there is no excuse for this. moving on

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As for this calling somebody, a "moron" is hardly worth making a fuss over especially when the other warden is clearly breaking the rules by denying DR. The fact that this was used as evidence further highlights how bias this post is.
On it's own is it worth the fuss? no of course not. But that's not exactly the case now is it? there are more instances like this I've brought up here and have left out entirely, I've only included slightly different scenarios to help prove the point being that salmon still acts provocative and does not so nice things on the server. Saying I have some form of bias is a really lame excuse on your end.

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This one has the same problem as the last one "stay mad son" which isn't really toxic. I mean we are playing a videogame where kids get mad often and I'm certain many admins have said similar things to troll kids who are being ragey.
Again, small provocative example of what I'm talking about. Is it worth crying a river over? no. But were just looking at a piece of the puzzle here. And I'd love for you to show me example of admins saying similar things because I find that very hard to believe. This shit is just weak and sad.


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I don't have much to say about this, he was spamming and he definitely shouldn't have been. All I can say is that he was clearly talking to a warden who was refusing to give a repeat and trying to say it more in chat in order to get the guy's attention. Still, the decision to repeal a 3 year mute should not hinge on this type of chat spam which would usually get a minimal gag at best.
Correct, that he was. And considering he has dated blocks in the past for exactly this reason, he should know its not allowed yet here we are. Once again, while you might not agree this warrants a permanent communication based punishment, this community follows a system where if a user gets punished often enough they will be permanently silenced. Salmon is again very lucky to still have that chance to appeal.

I don't know what happened on the forums a few months ago as I wasn't active on the forums at the time. If you guys decide to base the appeal on that incident it would probably make more sense because since Bambi decided to search through Salmon's chat log and this was all he found it's clear he has no current behavior issues (excluding the one incident of him spamming "repeat.") The reason I made this response is that I don't think any of these chat logs, possibly excluding the last one, should be used as evidence in this appeal.

I play jailbreak often, and ALL the admins are honestly amazing especially compared to what we've had in the past (including Bambi he's definitely a goodmin) but I really felt the need to point out the problems with the last post, and I hope you guys will look at my response factually despite the fact that I am also biased. I sincerely hope that this appeal is handled by Madact or another admin who isn't a part of jailbreak. From Bambi's previous post I get the impression that the jailbreak admins might have too much history with salmon to handle this report without letting personal bias get in the way. I can't say for sure if salmon should be unmuted as the admins know more about the issue than I do (especially because I don't know what happened with the forums incident) but if a non-jailbreak admin handled this appeal and still decided to decline it my mind would be put at ease.
This isn't like the new report change. We aren't deciding to now just gag or punish anyone over the chatlog evidence I gave. This is simply to support the idea salmon isn't deserving of any kind of unmute or ungaurdban as of now. In the end I know your a good friend of his and really just want to stick up for your pal, I respect the shit out of that. However for you to fall back on the excuse that I'm being "biased" is a real lame ass way to nullify the pretty hard evidence I just gave and I gotta say I'm pretty disappointed. As far as if madact ends up dealing with it or some other random full does, it doesn't matter. I'm confident the right choice will be made here, and hopefully we start seeing something better off this.

See you around
 
After talking with the other jb fulls I do not believe you are ready for an unmute or unteamban. However after looking at the chatlogs bambi provided I think you are ready for a re-gag.

And before you complain about people searching through your chatlogs please remember you have 11 previous comm blocks, and I told you in your ungag appeal that you may be re-gagged without warning.


Declined
 
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