Declined Removal of No Steal Rule on DB TX. (1 Viewer)

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I just don't understand why they got a no-stealing rule but no big boi admin guys to enforce it
You can report them on the forums and get them punished.
Although it does not give you the right to steal just because there are no admins on the server. Hence why I find the removal of the rule completely wrong and unnecessary. But hey, I guess my opinion doesn't matter since I play on EU servers, right?
 
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Off-topic: Like talking to the wall.

Topic:
I just don't understand why they got a no-stealing rule but no big boi admin guys to enforce it
In real life, when you come to the store and see something, do you steal it even when there is no police officer/ guard around? Answer this question yourself.

I and many others players with lots of hours on Panda TX have been banned because of this rule.
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Oh where are those "lots of hours"? The poor ppl...
These are only two expamles. Find more yourself. Click me!
Click me! #2
 
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In case thid hasnt cooled down or been resolved yet, Id like to mention that there are new admins under review at this very moment. The TX server has indeed been understaffed for a brief moment. I work a full time job and cant afford to play DB all day and night.
That being said, if the stealing rule is lifted, I quit. I have 0 bans on Panda, and Ive been an honest player since I learned the rules. Thats not hard to, just simply pay attention to the rocket, and dont stand in front of other players. Joojoo is not an honest player, he uses CQC as an excuse to steal, at least he used to. Im not bashing you Joo, but Im not gonna stay quiet about it. I understand the frustration when you want to play and everyone else is stealing. Then the next time an admin is on and nobody is stealing. Its the sole reason I volunteered to administrate.
Im not fearful in the slightest that stealing on TX will be allowed. But its not up to me.
Lastly, the TX server is already under stress. Personally I think the new RTD is still broken and overpowered. And free stealing will ruin the server for good. Thats my opinion.
 
In case thid hasnt cooled down or been resolved yet, Id like to mention that there are new admins under review at this very moment.

I don't follow all apps, how many apps are open for potential TX admins and how many look likely to be accepted? (We can count Wolfgang as someone who can take some calls from there, that's already something.) Perhaps it is best to see how the server runs when it is administrated better. If it isn't administrated well then you can't expect everyone to know the rule exists or be very motivated to follow it. Once it's enforced better and word gets out, the TX server can become what it was meant to be - modeled on the EU servers. Should it then at a later stage appear that the vast majority of American players truly want the rule gone - and this should be backed up by server statistics showing a drop in average players - this can be reviewed once more.

Every time now that I hear someone say "everyone wants this thing", I'm reminded of when someone called me onto a server because rtv wasn't working and "everyone wants the map changed!!". I asked assurance that at least the majority wanted it changed, he said yes literally everyone wants it changed. I joined, asked people in chat who wanted the map changed, and two people responded with yes. One of whom was the person who called me there to begin with.

Ever since then I've been careful about believing people who paint themselves off as the majority. Even if Joojoo calls some of his friends here to testify, that is still only a group of friends who are likely to agree on such issues. As I'm not involved with TX I'm not suited to gather the actual statistics, even loosely. This should be on the admins' hands when this case is ready to go under review again.

That is, assuming that all the NA DB admins who have input here have already responded.

Just for my clarity's sake: has there ever been a thread or formal suggestion about this issue before? This is certainly the first I know of in my mind.
 
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There have been multiple suggestions suggesting either this or similar adjustments to the rules, both on the public suggestion forum and the private trial forum.
 
@EvoWarrior5, there are three potential trial admins with an under review tag on their application that I know of. As to the status of said applicants, Im in no position to give any legitimate information, only that it took 2-3 weeks for my own application to be accepted.
When you say what the server was meant to be, I think you mean restored to what it was. We have lost a handful of admins this year, when we had a larger staff I saw much more calls being handled.
For players who are unaware of the stealing rules, this really only applies to a player with (likely) less than 12 hours of time spent on Panda DB. Which also suggests they ignore the chat completely and miss the rules that are displayed regulary.
Whenever a player chooses to argue with me over getting slayed for stealing, I always tell them that there are other DB servers that dont have stealing rules and they are welcome to steal all they to on said servers. The counter argument being that those servers are unpopulated, hmm wonder why.
Most regular players I chat with agree that they enjoy Panda DB specifically because of the no stealing rule. (Unless they are lying because Im an admin lol)
Personally being in my position, for about a year now, Ive learned a lot about being an admin for DB. I choose to stand in the middle to watch where the rocket goes. This way I can determine if a steal is honest or aggressive. I dont want to be a slay nazi, but some players are what I would call "rocket chasers." These players choose to cause trouble regardless of an admins presence. Some steals I wont slay because I didnt even see it, but when the same persons name pops up for over and over its hard not to auto slay :b
What Im getting at, is that it is the individual admin who makes the server what it is. Its like getting pulled over, some officers will ticket your ass, and others will let you off with a warning. Depends on you, and the cop.
 
As a player who had a good amount of time enjoying dodgeball the way it is. To also add the fact I might admin this very server if my application gets accepted. I highly disagree with removing the no stealing rule. The fact of someone coming up to your rocket to steal it and get a kill with it really does suck. For you and the person you're trying to kill anyways. You don't get any credit when you speed up that rocket to risk a round of dodgeball. The only reason you're speeding that rocket up is to kill your opponent, and if it that hard work (well... not entirely "hard work", but in a different point of view I would say) is taken by a random player who also happens to get a kill with it. It just. Well. How would you say it. It's not too devastating for you it just. Well. Kind of sucks. Stealing from a player who was stripped to melee (I absolutely despise rtd) is fine. He couldn't do anything other than circle or die by the rocket. It's the fact that stealing other player's rockets is almost like (not to a significant value as my upcoming example. Just to a similar degree) stealing a entire project from a partner of yours who has been working all night for it. Or maybe a better example and more down on point. Is that stealing from players is stealing their credit. I have a few more reasons why I like I stated "Highly Disagree" with the removal of the rule that denies stealing.

~This concludes my personal dodgebally onion opinion on your current suggestion Joos~

~Now on to my suggestion for this current suggestion to hopefully be used as a possible idea for the suggestion of the removal of no stealing~

My suggestion if this was to ever become true. Is that rather than removing the rule that denies stealing. Why not make it that it's HIGHLY recommended that you do not steal. You won't get banned, you won't get slayed, and you won't be warned not to steal. Instead it should be ENCOURAGED not to steal. Rather than forced. To show you why you shouldn't steal is for the fact you will lose points everytime you steal. Lets say... 10 points or so. This is my Spanky suggestion on this Joos Suggestion.

•~• :vanilla2: This concludes my onion opinion and suggestion.
 
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Off-topic: Like talking to the wall. a

Topic:

In real life, when you come to the store and see something, do you steal it even when there is no police officer/ guard around? Answer this question yourself.


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jdqy.PNG

t7qs.PNG

eqp3.PNG

Oh where are those "lots of hours"? The poor ppl...
These are only two expamles. Find more yourself. Click me!
Click me! #2
First off, the first example you just gave has 2 days and 10 hours of time on the server with 132 connects to the server so I would say that's a good bit of hours and the click me links lead to a least of people who have been banned and just glancing at the list I recognize the names of regulars to the server. Second off the analogy you put wasn't accurate. It would be more like this, "There is a street that has only one crosswalk on the block you are on, you need to get to the other side of the street but you don't want to walk all the way down to the crosswalk because to get to your destination you'd have to walk back up the street, and there is no crosswalk connecting your side of the street where you stand to your destination, You look around you and there is no crossguard or peace officers (Or any authoritative figure). You also notice that the other people facing this same dilemma choose to just J Walk across the street to their destination. You may notice in small hand writing on the street that it says do not cross. You look around you again and notice that nobody else is hesitating to cross the street, and some are even eager to cross it, they look like good people you see them here everyday. So the next day you come back to your job or whatever your business on that side of the street was, and you see those same people again, and after you do your job and you're ready to go home, everyone quickly walks across the street again ready to go home. You do this every day for about two weeks. Then one day you or someone you know is going about your business like you always do, you go to cross the street, then some cops come out of nowhere grab the first person who walks onto the street gets grabbed by the cops and thrown in prison for 12 hours.
 
I don't follow all apps, how many apps are open for potential TX admins and how many look likely to be accepted? (We can count Wolfgang as someone who can take some calls from there, that's already something.) Perhaps it is best to see how the server runs when it is administrated better. If it isn't administrated well then you can't expect everyone to know the rule exists or be very motivated to follow it. Once it's enforced better and word gets out, the TX server can become what it was meant to be - modeled on the EU servers. Should it then at a later stage appear that the vast majority of American players truly want the rule gone - and this should be backed up by server statistics showing a drop in average players - this can be reviewed once more.

Every time now that I hear someone say "everyone wants this thing", I'm reminded of when someone called me onto a server because rtv wasn't working and "everyone wants the map changed!!". I asked assurance that at least the majority wanted it changed, he said yes literally everyone wants it changed. I joined, asked people in chat who wanted the map changed, and two people responded with yes. One of whom was the person who called me there to begin with.

Ever since then I've been careful about believing people who paint themselves off as the majority. Even if Joojoo calls some of his friends here to testify, that is still only a group of friends who are likely to agree on such issues. As I'm not involved with TX I'm not suited to gather the actual statistics, even loosely. This should be on the admins' hands when this case is ready to go under review again.

That is, assuming that all the NA DB admins who have input here have already responded.

Just for my clarity's sake: has there ever been a thread or formal suggestion about this issue before? This is certainly the first I know of in my mind.
I really like this post cause I feel the writer understands the purpose of it, and i've really been encouraging all panda players to come write a reply on here for their feedback not just my own personal friends like was stated by someone else I believe. However I won't discredit NA DB Admins opinions, but I will only accept their opinions as an individual player on the server and I feel that them being an admin should have no more sway on the topic than that. Because for a player to become an admin they have to enforce the rule and usually that goes hand in hand with actually supporting the rule, there are also people who have quit being an admin because they don't support the rule so I think the actually admins opinions on this are just as equal as the regulars who come on every day except with a predispostition bias towards the rule.
 
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As a player who had a good amount of time enjoying dodgeball the way it is. To also add the fact I might admin this very server if my application gets accepted. I highly disagree with removing the no stealing rule. The fact of someone coming up to your rocket to steal it and get a kill with it really does suck. For you and the person you're trying to kill anyways. You don't get any credit when you speed up that rocket to risk a round of dodgeball. The only reason you're speeding that rocket up is to kill your opponent, and if it that hard work (well... not entirely "hard work", but in a different point of view I would say) is taken by a random player who also happens to get a kill with it. It just. Well. How would you say it. It's not too devastating for you it just. Well. Kind of sucks. Stealing from a player who was stripped to melee (I absolutely despise rtd) is fine. He couldn't do anything other than circle or die by the rocket. It's the fact that stealing other player's rockets is almost like (not to a significant value as my upcoming example. Just to a similar degree) stealing a entire project from a partner of yours who has been working all night for it. Or maybe a better example and more down on point. Is that stealing from players is stealing their credit. I have a few more reasons why I like I stated "Highly Disagree" with the removal of the rule that denies stealing.

~This concludes my personal dodgebally onion opinion on your current suggestion Joos~

~Now on to my suggestion for this current suggestion to hopefully be used as a possible idea for the suggestion of the removal of no stealing~

My suggestion if this was to ever become true. Is that rather than removing the rule that denies stealing. Why not make it that it's HIGHLY recommended that you do not steal. You won't get banned, you won't get slayed, and you won't be warned not to steal. Instead it should be ENCOURAGED not to steal. Rather than forced. To show you why you shouldn't steal is for the fact you will lose points everytime you steal. Lets say... 10 points or so. This is my Spanky suggestion on this Joos Suggestion.

•~• :vanilla2: This concludes my onion opinion and suggestion.
I recognize Spanky as a frequent player of Panda TX and i'd like to start by thanking him for writing a reply, and I really like the proposal he made about eliminating the rule but instead encouraging no stealing in another less permanently harming means.
 
~Now my onion opinion on this suggestive suggestion on the onion opinion of my own Spanky statement of to which counteract my own justification on my onion opinion of this suggestive suggestion for Joos~

As a player who has a good amount of time enjoying dodgeball the way it is. To also add the fact that I might admin this very server if my application gets accepted. I more so and so agree to Joos with removing the no stealing rule. I would say I very much agree with the other Spankyworld on this topic, but I have other opinions on stealing. It can make a great challenge with for good players who know the ways of the rocket. The fact of someone coming up to your rocket to steal it, and get a kill with it really does suck. Although I would say that stealing the rocket could also make the game more of Big League's kind of game. Where your opponent will not play fair. Having a massive collection of skills and tricks. Making the game unpredictable yet enjoyable to more elite and skilled players who are seeking a true battle for victory. Rather than in the little league where you have to follow the strict rules, and are limited from your skills and to your powers that you truly do possess. The removal of stealing may have a bad effect on more new members of our community, yet not to those who are more experienced and are seeking enjoyment in their day to day dodgeball days. Everyone enjoys the game when the difficulty level rises. Unless you haven't played the game for long. Then well. It would not be such an enjoyable time for you then.

~I have nothing else to say on my onion opinion on this suggestive suggestion on the onion opinion of my own Spanky statement of to which counteracts my own justification on my onion opinion of this suggestive suggestion from Joos~

•~• :vanilla2: This concludes my onion opinion.
 
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Regular player or new player, doesnt matter, they still should respect the rules, even then , when admin is not there or lack of admins.

I find it more unfair to players, who dont like get to stealed...
 
However I won't discredit NA DB Admins opinions, but I will only accept their opinions as an individual player on the server and I feel that them being an admin should have no more sway on the topic than that. Because for a player to become an admin they have to enforce the rule and usually that goes hand in hand with actually supporting the rule, there are also people who have quit being an admin because they don't support the rule so I think the actually admins opinions on this are just as equal as the regulars who come on every day except with a predispostition bias towards the rule.

I realise I gave off the impression that I put more weight on admins' opinions, particularly through the immediate juxtaposition between counting on admins to provide statistics and asking if all US DB admins have responded here yet. The second is because cases are usually kept open until everything has been said, which in many threads involves acquiring inputs from all admin who want a say in the matter. However, I agree with you that the admins will have a natural predisposition in favour of the rule, which combats your own predisposition against it. That is mainly a matter of clashing opinions and rank has quite little to do with that.

With respect to the first - counting on the admins to provide insight on players' opinions at a later stage - this comes down to general attributes of admins that they are (1) trusted within the community, and (2) are generally active players and are likely to have insight on the matter. Particularly this point has nothing to do with their opinions by that time.

I will never be able to contribute meaningfully to a discussion on how many people want this or that on a server I don't visit. All I can say is that I agree with the earlier made statement that Panda's atypical stealing rule makes it unique in the US context and players should have the option to visit a place where the rules are different, allowing for a different gaming experience. Unless the server is doing absolutely terribly with the player count, I do not see a reason to make the drastic rule change. While having a large playerbase is nice, it's not what determines whether a server is worthy of being what it is. Class Warfare for a long time did awful when it came to attracting players; nowadays it's doing very well. For as long as it has stayed up being the same server with an interesting gamemode, it's entertained players even when it wasn't always much (but now it is).

This brings me to a question that I've had in mind the whole time but which hasn't really been relevant to ask: why do you play on Panda DB when, as you say, all the other servers have the ruleset that you agree with? Beyond the reason of 'I don't like it', why do you think the rule should be changed when the people who like stealing can do so on all of the other servers? You've said that it hurts many players who come through it because they want to be able to steal, and that may be so, but it doesn't explain to me why you stayed here and didn't move on. A significant part of your rhetoric hinges on the assumption that you want to help the server as a whole; it doesn't make sense why you'd be here to help yourself. It seems like you could do that everywhere else. What would it matter to you when this community wants the US server to be different from others, even if that were to mean that it might be less popular?
 
I realise I gave off the impression that I put more weight on admins' opinions, particularly through the immediate juxtaposition between counting on admins to provide statistics and asking if all US DB admins have responded here yet. The second is because cases are usually kept open until everything has been said, which in many threads involves acquiring inputs from all admin who want a say in the matter. However, I agree with you that the admins will have a natural predisposition in favour of the rule, which combats your own predisposition against it. That is mainly a matter of clashing opinions and rank has quite little to do with that.

With respect to the first - counting on the admins to provide insight on players' opinions at a later stage - this comes down to general attributes of admins that they are (1) trusted within the community, and (2) are generally active players and are likely to have insight on the matter. Particularly this point has nothing to do with their opinions by that time.

I will never be able to contribute meaningfully to a discussion on how many people want this or that on a server I don't visit. All I can say is that I agree with the earlier made statement that Panda's atypical stealing rule makes it unique in the US context and players should have the option to visit a place where the rules are different, allowing for a different gaming experience. Unless the server is doing absolutely terribly with the player count, I do not see a reason to make the drastic rule change. While having a large playerbase is nice, it's not what determines whether a server is worthy of being what it is. Class Warfare for a long time did awful when it came to attracting players; nowadays it's doing very well. For as long as it has stayed up being the same server with an interesting gamemode, it's entertained players even when it wasn't always much (but now it is).

This brings me to a question that I've had in mind the whole time but which hasn't really been relevant to ask: why do you play on Panda DB when, as you say, all the other servers have the ruleset that you agree with? Beyond the reason of 'I don't like it', why do you think the rule should be changed when the people who like stealing can do so on all of the other servers? You've said that it hurts many players who come through it because they want to be able to steal, and that may be so, but it doesn't explain to me why you stayed here and didn't move on. A significant part of your rhetoric hinges on the assumption that you want to help the server as a whole; it doesn't make sense why you'd be here to help yourself. It seems like you could do that everywhere else. What would it matter to you when this community wants the US server to be different from others, even if that were to mean that it might be less popular?
~For some support for Joos~

I believe the reason why he enjoys playing on this particular server is due to the fact that the players he goes up against in dodgeball are his entertainment source. For a good time and good friends. My possible guess of why he would stay on this server. Maybe it could be that it's more cleansed to his liking, or a more inviting environment. It could possibly be to keep his rank, but besides that. I'm just going to guess it's for a good time and good friends.

•~• :vanilla2: This concludes my reply.
 
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I realise I gave off the impression that I put more weight on admins' opinions, particularly through the immediate juxtaposition between counting on admins to provide statistics and asking if all US DB admins have responded here yet. The second is because cases are usually kept open until everything has been said, which in many threads involves acquiring inputs from all admin who want a say in the matter. However, I agree with you that the admins will have a natural predisposition in favour of the rule, which combats your own predisposition against it. That is mainly a matter of clashing opinions and rank has quite little to do with that.

With respect to the first - counting on the admins to provide insight on players' opinions at a later stage - this comes down to general attributes of admins that they are (1) trusted within the community, and (2) are generally active players and are likely to have insight on the matter. Particularly this point has nothing to do with their opinions by that time.

I will never be able to contribute meaningfully to a discussion on how many people want this or that on a server I don't visit. All I can say is that I agree with the earlier made statement that Panda's atypical stealing rule makes it unique in the US context and players should have the option to visit a place where the rules are different, allowing for a different gaming experience. Unless the server is doing absolutely terribly with the player count, I do not see a reason to make the drastic rule change. While having a large playerbase is nice, it's not what determines whether a server is worthy of being what it is. Class Warfare for a long time did awful when it came to attracting players; nowadays it's doing very well. For as long as it has stayed up being the same server with an interesting gamemode, it's entertained players even when it wasn't always much (but now it is).

This brings me to a question that I've had in mind the whole time but which hasn't really been relevant to ask: why do you play on Panda DB when, as you say, all the other servers have the ruleset that you agree with? Beyond the reason of 'I don't like it', why do you think the rule should be changed when the people who like stealing can do so on all of the other servers? You've said that it hurts many players who come through it because they want to be able to steal, and that may be so, but it doesn't explain to me why you stayed here and didn't move on. A significant part of your rhetoric hinges on the assumption that you want to help the server as a whole; it doesn't make sense why you'd be here to help yourself. It seems like you could do that everywhere else. What would it matter to you when this community wants the US server to be different from others, even if that were to mean that it might be less popular?
So far you have been very helpful and I really enjoy reading and replying to your responses, Now to answer it, I really am trying to remove the rule not for my own personal benefit but because it hurts our already existing players. I mentioned the fact that our player base COULD grow if we remove the rule as a possible incentive to those who have the power to make the decision. But I personally don't care about whether it grows in population to much or not, what I do care about is that we increase the quality of the server and also the reputation of it. I play Panda DB everyday and I play it because I like the game mechanics of it, as a player yourself (I assume), then surely you also know that different servers are different to play on. I think that Panda DB is the second best rocket, (ES Custom being the better rocket IMO), and I think that combined with the removal of the rule that deters other server players from joining our server, we can become the best in Quality, Reputation, and possibly even in population. Our server will get more traffic with the removal of this rule I can guarantee it, I however cannot guarantee that it will be greater than the loss of players if the rule is removed. But as a person who plays on the server every day and witnesses the players playing first hand, I am confident that the removal of this rule is in Panda's best interest and will benefit not only Panda TX but the Panda DB community as a whole, because as you say Panda is the server that has this unique rule, but I argue that we could be the Panda server who also has a bit of difference from all the other Panda DB servers, and that can happen if we just remove this rule from Panda TX.
 
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Regular player or new player, doesnt matter, they still should respect the rules, even then , when admin is not there or lack of admins.

I find it more unfair to players, who dont like get to stealed...
I understand what you're saying but this clearly shows that you don't play on Panda TX, the thing is it's already as if the rule doesn't exist. It isn't enforced so nobody follows it, play on Panda TX just 1 time while there is people on it and you can see for yourself. What i'm trying to do here is prevent further banning of our loyal players. Here's the thing, if we keep the rule, the people who like the rule will reap no benefit cause it's not being enforced either way. If we get rid of the rule, the people who are against the rule (And I argue that they are the majority), will stop getting banned, and people from other servers who avoid our server because of the rule, could become more loyal to our server in the future.
 
That pretty much clears everything up for me. I have no further input, I like the idea of the server being set apart from the rest for those who want a steal-free environment, but it isn't my call to make. From the input on the thread so far, I think I can safely stand by my earlier idea of testing the waters with the increased administrative capacities and then reviewing the case anew at a later stage. I know that that doesn't help you and the others who'd like to see it changed, at least for now, but if Panda were to give up its traditional ruleset while the admin team is at a low point and it is hard to tell how it can run at full potential, it wouldn't really have a chance to bloom into what kevin and some of the other older Panda people envisioned it to be when expanding overseas. On the one hand, I can agree with the sentiment that if the majority of the actual playerbase wants something, it sounds ridiculous to not give it to them. On the other hand, I stand by my feeling that it is also just nice to have something different around for those who want it - even if that might make it less popular.
 
the thing is it's already as if the rule doesn't exist. It isn't enforced so nobody follows it, play on Panda TX just 1 time while there is people on it and you can see for yourself. What i'm trying to do here is prevent further banning of our loyal players.
...or you know, take your time and report them on the forums? the players will get punished if necessary and eventually will be perma banned if they were to continue. it's not difficult.
 
...or you know, take your time and report them on the forums? the players will get punished if necessary and eventually will be perma banned if they were to continue. it's not difficult.

That only really helps the reporter if they report regulars who keep on stealing. A lot of stealers will be one-time players. Plus it doesn't help them in-game; the stealer won't get punished while both the reporter and stealer are in the server. Reporting is a very imperfect solution and needs to be backed up with actual active adminstration.

But all of that completely misses the point of this thread. The OP isn't in favour of the rule, wants it removed in general, and what you quoted is only one of their arguments as to why removing it might not just be better for them but for more of the server's general playerbase. Why report someone for breaking a rule you don't believe in?
 
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That only really helps the reporter if they report regulars who keep on stealing. A lot of stealers will be one-time players. Plus it doesn't help them in-game; the stealer won't get punished while both the reporter and stealer are in the server. Reporting is a very imperfect solution and needs to be backed up with actual active adminstration.

But all of that completely misses the point of this thread. The OP isn't in favour of the rule, wants it removed in general, and what you quoted is only one of their arguments as to why removing it might not just be better for them but for more of the server's general playerbase. Why report someone for breaking a rule you don't believe in?
Exactly there are few reports and the reports that do get made get players banned without recieving a warning from an admin, if you ever play on the server on the rare occation that an admin does get on it's as if the teacher was out of the room and the students were talking, the kids who know the drill stop stealing and players who have only been playing for several weeks and are looking to play on our server for weeks to come end up getting banned, this happens because with the amount of admins we have and the times they get on it is common that you can play for weeks and never actually see one. Then as soon as they are punished, realize that this is a rule and a bad one at that then they usually stop coming after their first ban.
 
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