The no steal rule hurts the players of Panda TX more than it protects them. It is the reason that many players who play on the server regularly, recieve bans sometimes enough to recieve permanent bans. The rule only protects a few select players with a specific playstyle or personality. We are the only U.S. DB server that I know of who uses this rule and from playing on other servers i've learned that the only reason why some players choose other servers isntead of Panda TX is because of the no steal rule. And with lack of admins who frequent the server it is a rule that should not be priortized over things like hackers and TKers. And in cases when no admin can be reached, the very small minority of players who are for the rule can take demos of players and report them and there have been cases when players who have stolen under the usual stealing ban requirment of three steals have been banned anyways without recieving warning from an admin. New players and old players have both grown used to not needing to obey the no steal rule due to the lack of admins and are often surprised when recieiving slays. (Yes I know that the rule is placed in chat frequently but if we expect our players to read the chat and actually bother to follow a rule that isn't enforced than we are expecting too much).
Declined Removal of No Steal Rule on DB TX. (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Joojoo
- Start date
-
- Tags
- no-steal rule panda tx removal
- Status
there is even a message in the chat once someone stole a rocket so it should be quite obvious that you should NOT steal rockets.
this rule is active since we run DB servers and this goes back till 2011/2012.
thus who dont follow this rule simply get warned and punished.
incase admins dont warn players first before they are punishing them then its the corresponding admins fault. - those players who think that they got punished wrongly can contact me cause i know that this might happen here and there.
The problem is we lack in admins either way, so when an admin is called for a person stealing and does not arrive, players that are upset about the stealing whether it affects them directly or not will take video of the entire server and anyone who steals in the video is banned even if they do not steal the usually allotted amount of three steals before a ban, without warning or punishment from the admin and the player's that get banned can't even defend their case during the time that it happened.
TBotV63
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 29, 2016
- Messages
- 765
I'd like to point out here that there is no such thing as an "allotted 3 steals before a ban". It is customary that admins will warn (by slaying) offending players, however it is neither necessary nor common practice to extend this courtesy to repeat offenders or people clearly aware of the rule. The rules are quite clear on when stealing is and when it isn't allowed. It is up to the players to inform themselves about these rules, besides, it is quite clearly broadcast in chat that stealing isn't allowed and I don't think taking a glance at the chat every now and then is too much to ask.
A multitude of arguments have been made for removing or "softening" the rule against stealing, but the fact that players cannot adhere to the rules in absence of admins is certainly one of the weakest arguments I've seen.
As for defending your case, you can always appeal on the forums. In fact, that is the very definition of what an appeal is: A defense of your case.
That is like dealing drugs in the same corner every day and then acting surprised when you are suddenly caught. Players always need to obey the rules (and agree to do so by playing on our servers), whether they are enforced at a given moment or not is irrelevant.
The steal rule is not being prioritised, in fact I'd argue that cheating and griefing are prioritised over routine stealing calls if at all.
A thousand times this!
On a sidenote, if my app were to go through, i'd be more than happy to sort the US servers out in terms of enforcement of the rules...I've been known to avoid that place like the plague because almost everyone there evidently thinks the rules don't apply in the absence of an admin, or because majority thinks it's okay to steal because every other US server has it so. As tbot stated you are asked to agree to the rules upon joining..
If a majority of players think it's okay to steal why then isn't it apparent that the rule should be removed. Why have a rule if a majority of the players already disagree with it and you lack in admins to properly enforce it. Shouldn't our players be the number one concern of the server. Because what is a server with out it's players. It is harming the players who are loyal to our server even without agreeing to this redundant rule. I believe that Panda TX is a good server but I think that this rule is keeping it from being the best.
I disagree with this analogy. In this case stealing rockets isn't similar to dealing drugs because dealing drugs is illegal no matter where you go it is a crime, whereas stealing rockets is allowed in most other servers and often isn't seen as an illegal or rule breaking action, it is only on this server that it is seen this way. And when there are more victims of bans than there are of stolen rockets it is nonsensical to keep this rule.
That's basically the same as saying you get to keep your shoes on while visiting my place despite repeatedly being asked to take them off (you are a guest here! houserules!) because in the end, you are a guest playing on a server belonging to someone else. It just doesn't work this way. As you yourself have already stated practically every other US server allows it. In this case this is what makes us stand out, why take that away from the ones that care when you have dozens of other options already tending to your needs?
To call me a guest in your house is ignorant. I am a member of this community, this isn't a piece of property for you to dictate is arrogant. This is the Panda Community and I am a member, as are many members who are being neglected because of this rule. This rule isn't protecting our community members it is only leading to strife. You said yourself that you don't even play on Panda TX, well I do i'm here every day. And if you will not give us representation on this matter then why do you even have a forum for free speach. This isn't a rule that should be imposed by outsiders it should be something that can define us as our own independent community, that we are the Panda server without the silly no steal rule, we are the best server for the most players, and by changing this rule we're also the server who cares enough about it's community members that we will change rules that hurt out members instead of being stubborn totalitarian dictators, this isn't a house i'm a guest in it is a family and we should be treated with due respect to our own needs.
First and foremost I have already stated the reason I do not play on the US servers is purely and singlehandedly because of people not adhering to the rules-- which in the end is just what they are. rules. server rules, house rules, it is all the same. you aren't the first to make this suggestion and more than likely won't be the last which is where my statement about being a guest comes into place. I am not dictating anything here, I am stating a simple truth. Whereas rules are concerned we're both still guests. Neither our needs or donations change that fact.
Respect has to be given to be earned and from what I can tell from the large percentage of players showing a complete disregard for one rule or the other I'm not sure where that places everyone.
All this strife and unneccesary bans you are referring to is again simply due to people including yourself not agreeing with it, but instead of finding a place where you can play however you wish as allowed by the rules, people for some reason think it is okay to go behind admin's backs and completely disregard them and then hop onto the forums to make the 100th suggestion regarding the topic, so excuse me if I find it a bit hard to believe you call yourself a member of a community who's rules you choose not to follow and then go on about respect when none is shown to the admins attempting to enforce these rules right to the point they just give up.
Start allowing this on one Panda server and people are going to want it everywhere, for whatever reason. before you know it there's going to be people wanting this over in EU or the other US servers which could then potentially destroy the fun for every other dodgeball player playing there because they actually get a chance to play, and everything will just turn into and endless string of suggestion threads and admins too tired to deal with them. Get one server to feel special and all of them are gonna want to feel special, I just don't see this working in any way whatsoever without destroying exactly what panda's Dodgeball servers stand for.
NOOT NOOT a
New Member
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2017
- Messages
- 2
You can not speak for Panda TX you do not play here, you say it's because we don't follow the rule but I feel it probably has something to do with the fact that you live in the Netherlands. I've been told by EU admins that it is common practice on EU DB servers to have the no steal rule, what EU wants is none of my concern. I am here to have this rule removed on Panda TX where it hurts more of our community members than it protects. Panda TX, Panda NY, and Panda EU are all different servers with different players. But all I know is that Panda TX wants this rule gone. I have over 330 hours on Panda TX and I love the server, but this rule is hindering us and it needs to go.
and I'm the one being called ignorant...?
I'm saying, and by this point it is evident, you have not thought beyond the point of what would happen if this were to be accepted.
There is a very good reason every previous suggestion pertaining this exact topic has been denied.
It's this fear of change and lack of faith in the rule you are defending is why this suggestion keeps being denied. If the rule is so unstable that changing it on one server could jeopordize it's stability on other servers doesn't it seem that it's probably not a good rule in the first place. This isn't politics it's simple. Panda TX doesn't need or want this rule and for it to continue will lead to the demise of it's player basis.
This is just getting ridiculous at this point. At the end of the day, I'm just repeating what has been said a dozen times before. Ultimately this lies in the hand of @Kevin but you also have to understand that having one localized no-stealing Panda Dodgeball server will result in more people wanting it for themselves. You're looking out for TX but at the same time disregard what could happen to the rest as a result of this suggestion. I think you've made it very clear where you stand in terms of community.
DeadSworn
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2014
- Messages
- 320
Perhaps the usa db admins should voice their opinion as it will carry the most weight on this topic, as long as we keep the no stealing rule on eu servers I don't see an issue if they want it.
I don't think it will spread as most eu players are used to the stealing rule it could happen but I just find it unlikely and I hope I'm correct.
Though TX may want it (I believe I remember a poll somewhere), we should probably keep the rule on NY in my opinion.
I don't think it will spread as most eu players are used to the stealing rule it could happen but I just find it unlikely and I hope I'm correct.
Though TX may want it (I believe I remember a poll somewhere), we should probably keep the rule on NY in my opinion.
I know I'm relatively new here but I kinda wanted to say a few things as well as express some thoughts on what is being discussed.
I will start out by just pointing out that this is not anything personal or an attack on your suggestion, it's my thoughts on what is said and how its said. And oh boy can I ramble xD
You say that the rule itself is hurtful to the community, however all I've seen it it has created a sense of order, stability and teamwork. I myself is one of those who are for the rule, I cannot stand people who have no respect for other players on the server.
If the rule wasn't there or no one really cared it will end up with everyone flocking to the rocket, just rushing up in the face of the opponent for a trick blast in their faces, this isn't just speculations but something I've experienced in my, somewhat limited, time here on panda.tf Dodgeball servers.
When playing with someone who steals it really throws of any kind of competitive and strategic gameplay and it just ends up being "who can get to the rocket first". Whenever I am trying to concentrate on the game and someone steals my rocket twice in a row, I don't know if i should expect the rocket to be stolen or if it will go straight in my face at around 140mph, while the stealers are out of any danger from said rocket. I personally do NOT like being someone elses meatshield.
Going by the "drug" example above its kinda the same that just because police isn't around doesn't mean that stealing from shops and people is allowed.
I've seen first hand how this "what the majority wants" can drag a server into the dust and completely ruin everything, this brings me back to the first point, the majority doesn't care to stick around regardless of the rules or not, but the community, the regulars, those who frequently play, they stick around cause they like the server as is, its those players who stay, its those players who keeps the server running. By making big changes like this you run the risk of losing the majority of the community on that server in favor of the one offs... and one offs doesn't keep the server running.
This isn't about being stubborn and afraid of changes, its about preserving what is and keeping everything stable and enjoyable.
Changes like these can have large consequences than you might not see at first.
Some consequences that can happen(I would like to note that I've seen these consequences first hand):
At first it seems small, you listen to the community and the majority that you refer to, since they are yelling loudest at the time. A simple rule is changed, soon those who frequently visit the server and have made it their "home" is now placed in an infamilier place, what they loved is changed and you start to lose those, since this is a tight community where people know each other, a lot of those leaving will cause a domino effect. If a persons friends have left the server, they too will most likely leave. You are now left with an unstable community where most of the regulars have left. In the meantime others will get wind of these changes and see that the rules are soft and can be changed by just yelling loud enough, so they too will start "suggesting" changes. Eventually, when repeating this process, you are left with a disaster. If actions is not taken early enough in this downwards, self destructive, process, the entire server might fall due to the ones that actually donated regularly are now gone and what we are left with is, is that the one offs rule the place, they come, they play, and they leave never to return. No more money is coming in to support the servers, which will eventually have to be closed.
This is the doomsday domino effect that "simple" changes have without very careful considerations and planning. Most of the time its simply just better in the long run not to disturb the peace.[/QUOTE]
I will start out by just pointing out that this is not anything personal or an attack on your suggestion, it's my thoughts on what is said and how its said. And oh boy can I ramble xD
You say that the rule itself is hurtful to the community, however all I've seen it it has created a sense of order, stability and teamwork. I myself is one of those who are for the rule, I cannot stand people who have no respect for other players on the server.
If the rule wasn't there or no one really cared it will end up with everyone flocking to the rocket, just rushing up in the face of the opponent for a trick blast in their faces, this isn't just speculations but something I've experienced in my, somewhat limited, time here on panda.tf Dodgeball servers.
When playing with someone who steals it really throws of any kind of competitive and strategic gameplay and it just ends up being "who can get to the rocket first". Whenever I am trying to concentrate on the game and someone steals my rocket twice in a row, I don't know if i should expect the rocket to be stolen or if it will go straight in my face at around 140mph, while the stealers are out of any danger from said rocket. I personally do NOT like being someone elses meatshield.
I'd like to mention that I too feel that the amount of online admins around the clock is not always sufficient, but that doesn't mean that the rules should not apply. This is also why I have every intention of applying myself as soon as I reach minimum requirements, I really want to help keep the peace and order that I've come to love about this server.
Going by the "drug" example above its kinda the same that just because police isn't around doesn't mean that stealing from shops and people is allowed.
With a decent amount of experience staffing a community server, albeit it was another game the point still stands, the community doesn't always know what it wants. To elaborate on that: The majority is also the amount of players that join as a one off or just joins a few times and then forgets about the server, most of those joins and gets mad cause they them self have no respect for the rules as well as doesn't even care to learn the rules.
I've seen first hand how this "what the majority wants" can drag a server into the dust and completely ruin everything, this brings me back to the first point, the majority doesn't care to stick around regardless of the rules or not, but the community, the regulars, those who frequently play, they stick around cause they like the server as is, its those players who stay, its those players who keeps the server running. By making big changes like this you run the risk of losing the majority of the community on that server in favor of the one offs... and one offs doesn't keep the server running.
The real irony here is: to deny this fact is in itself ignorant. This IS a piece of property, belonging to Kevin (Not entirely sure if there is more owners/founders at this moment).
To use the "no free speech" argument against those who doesn't share or approve of your opinions is in my own opinion despicable (excuse my language). This exactly is what free speech is: you vending your opinion and us vending our opinion so that we can all discuss our opinions and possibly either each a better understanding and possibly each an agreement or an acceptance of the subject matter.
As stated earlier, this DOES protect the community.. Those who stayed because of the unique rules and gameplay that, as you stated, isn't common anywhere else. The only one it hurts is those who cannot accept that this is how things is done here and how the rules is.
At this point you've clearly reached desperation, using claims such as dictators, totalitarians and stubborn, simply just to get your way. These claims have no place in this discussion as they serve nothing other than just throwing around with bad words and sparking a fight.
This isn't about being stubborn and afraid of changes, its about preserving what is and keeping everything stable and enjoyable.
Changes like these can have large consequences than you might not see at first.
Some consequences that can happen(I would like to note that I've seen these consequences first hand):
At first it seems small, you listen to the community and the majority that you refer to, since they are yelling loudest at the time. A simple rule is changed, soon those who frequently visit the server and have made it their "home" is now placed in an infamilier place, what they loved is changed and you start to lose those, since this is a tight community where people know each other, a lot of those leaving will cause a domino effect. If a persons friends have left the server, they too will most likely leave. You are now left with an unstable community where most of the regulars have left. In the meantime others will get wind of these changes and see that the rules are soft and can be changed by just yelling loud enough, so they too will start "suggesting" changes. Eventually, when repeating this process, you are left with a disaster. If actions is not taken early enough in this downwards, self destructive, process, the entire server might fall due to the ones that actually donated regularly are now gone and what we are left with is, is that the one offs rule the place, they come, they play, and they leave never to return. No more money is coming in to support the servers, which will eventually have to be closed.
This is the doomsday domino effect that "simple" changes have without very careful considerations and planning. Most of the time its simply just better in the long run not to disturb the peace.[/QUOTE]
I really appreciate the support I really do I believe you are correct but this goes to everyone, this is a Panda TX issue and I feel that these comments from EU players who to me are outsiders on the issue aren't really that valid.
[/QUOTE]
Like I said to DeadSworn, you are an EU player so this doesn't really involve you and tbh I disagree with nearly everything you said the main point being that the people who are being protected by the rule aren't the regulars, it's the one offs who join once and never play again. It's the Regular palyers that suffer. It is a rule that is not enforced and can not truely be expected to follow especially when the majority of the player basis disagrees with it. I and many others players with lots of hours on Panda TX have been banned because of this rule. Players who are loyal to Panda TX and deserve our loyalty to them. The rule doesn't get one offs banned, we don't have enough admins to worry about that, it gets our players who are on all the time banned.
- Status