Declined Prevent Stealing on Dodgeball (1 Viewer)

[Sudden]

Main idea: Players should lose [GameME] points for stealing.

The servers have been upgraded so that admins can slay the stealer much easier than before. This has helped cut down on stealing, especially while admins are on. However, stealing can still get pretty bad at some points. Players on the Dodgeball servers really seem to care about their ranks. I am proposing that in addition to the plugin that says [player1] stole [player2]'s rocket in chat, players should be docked points for stealing. I feel that because they care so deeply about their ranks, that the penalty of losing points for stealing will deter them from doing so.

 

[Ranger Ciri]

I don't think earning or losing points should be related to breaking rules. Sometimes people do it by accident, apologies and it's fine again (if there's no admin on). I think reporting the player or doing !call is just fine as it is, admins on db are pretty active.

 

[Nitro4D]

Look, I am 90% sure that most of the stealers on the dodgeball server are new and don't even know that the ranking system is. Let alone know what the rules are.

For the other people that do know. They most of the time stop stealing whenever an admin is on the same server. Or they just continue to butthurt the admins.

And then there are a few people who are in it for the points and so that's why they steal.

Or americans Yes I am calling you out @Cryptic

 

[klay]

No.

• People who accidentally steal will be pissed.
• People who steal when it is allowed will be pissed.
• Imo 90% of the stealers don't care about their ranks.
• We will never implement unreliable automatic punishment as there are exceptions.

Stealing cannot be prevented. It can only be treated. Make a call. Record a demo. Post a report on the forums.

 

[Cryptic]

Or americans Yes I am calling you out @Cryptic

Americans? If you're gonna call me out, at least present a reasonable argument. EU Dodgeball has far more stealers (rule-breakers in general) than US Dodgeball. I sometimes can't even keep track on the number of slays each player has, 'cause it's one stealer after another. If you're not buying it, just check the call statistics:
# of EU Dodgeball calls (last 14 days): 779
# of US Dodgeball calls (last 14 days): 97

Anyway, I'm against this idea. Klay covered all the reasons as to why.

 

[Sudden]

Well I suggested this as a fix for the regulars that steal. New players may not care, but they're also not the real problem. The real problem is the regulars that continuously steal. I feel that a small point penalty will deter them from stealing, and will not upset people that do it by accident as it won't be too many points (adds up over time for continuous stealers). Admins cannot always get on the server, and I don't really want to get the regulars banned, so I feel like this is a better solution.

 

[TBotV63]

Personally I think that if they can't adhere to rules in the absence of admins, they should be banned. And then they can carefully evaluate whether stealing is worth getting banned again next time.

 

[Sudden]

Personally I think that if they can't adhere to rules in the absence of admins, they should be banned. And then they can carefully evaluate whether stealing is worth getting banned again next time.

Well in the absence of admins, they cannot be banned, just reported with /call. If an admin doesn't join at all or if an admin joins and they immediately stop, nothing can be done. That's why I proposed this as more of a deterrence than a solution. Eventual bans are the solution, but this deterence could help cut down on the occurrence of stealing.

 

[klay]

If an admin doesn't join at all or if an admin joins and they immediately stop, nothing can be done.

Post a report on the forums

Tbh, its pretty sad, that there is like one guy in the whole community who can be arsed to make reports.

I don't really want to get the regulars banned

You want us to treat regulars differently and more leniently? Yeah, no.

I am against this for the reasons I stated before. This will affect players who don't break rules negatively.

 

[Vecomti]

Who the fuck gives a shit about points lmao

 

[Sudden]

Tbh, its pretty sad, that there is like one guy in the whole community who can be arsed to make reports.



You want us to treat regulars differently and more leniently? Yeah, no.

I am against this for the reasons I stated before. This will affect players who don't break rules negatively.

I don't see how this would possibly affect players who don't break the rules. If they don't break the rules they wouldn't lose any points.

 

[Sudden]

Who the fuck gives a shit about points lmao

Apparently everyone on this thread that is so against my idea. If they didn't care about points they wouldn't be acting like losing 1 point for stealing was the end of the world.

 

[Ranger Ciri]

Stealing is allowed at some points, might not be called stealing but it works in the same way even if it's still not your rocket, like when someone's frozen or on nukes.

 

[Sudden]

Stealing is allowed at some points, might not be called stealing but it works in the same way even if it's still not your rocket, like when someone's frozen or on nukes.

Nukes don't count as steals on the plugin. It does not say [player1] stole [player2]'s rocket for nukes.

 

[Madact]

I thought this might be an interesting idea but instead of subtracting points...

How about no point awarded?
Think about it, if someone is saving themselves they're only benefiting themselves of their life during the game. And as for stealing they get nothing out of it

Anyways I don't think this is particular possible? Maybe it is but I really don't see Kevin altering it to that level. Like...is there even a way for game me to detect stealing? xD You see what I mean?

 

[TBotV63]

Anyways I don't think this is particular possible? Maybe it is but I really don't see Kevin altering it to that level. Like...is there even a way for game me to detect stealing? xD You see what I mean?

Technically it is possible to modify gameME to the point of ignoring round when a player steals. However it constitutes a lot of work, merely to create a (imo ineffective) deterrant.

Think about it, if someone is saving themselves they're only benefiting themselves of their life during the game. And as for stealing they get nothing out of it

But then we'd still end up punishing someone for a rocket they were allowed to take by the rules. It also makes tk attempts even more annoying for those who actually care about points: You can now either die or not get any points for the round. Either way, you're screwed.

As for simply not awarding points, at least in eudb the primary issue isn't regulars, but people who come on the server either just to steal and screw around or those who don't know what they're doing. These people don't give much of a damn about points anyway, and in the case of the newbies, have nothing to lose in terms of not getting points, because they only tend to get very few (if any) anyway.

Apparently everyone on this thread that is so against my idea. If they didn't care about points they wouldn't be acting like losing 1 point for stealing was the end of the world.

I don't give a damn about points, I doubt klay does either. Also, neither of us steal. The effort this will take is however not worth the outcome in our opinion. That is why we are giving our honest opinion on this matter, rather than acting like anything was "the end of the world". Add to that the fact, that half of the time gameME doesn't even work properly and a single point will hardly put a dent in someones rank if they indeed are a regular (and thus somewhat decent at the game) and know how to time their steals and you will see that this will have a neglegiable impact on both players and ranks.

I'll just reiterate here: Instead of putting a lot of development time into this, I'd suggest using the Reports section as a more direct (and more effective) way of dealing with this issue. If a regular constantly steals (or anyone for that matter), it can't be that hard to simply record a demo and submit it to the forums, can it?

 

[Sudden]

I thought this might be an interesting idea but instead of subtracting points...

How about no point awarded?
Think about it, if someone is saving themselves they're only benefiting themselves of their life during the game. And as for stealing they get nothing out of it

Anyways I don't think this is particular possible? Maybe it is but I really don't see Kevin altering it to that level. Like...is there even a way for game me to detect stealing? xD You see what I mean?

There is already a plugin on the dodgeball servers that detects stealing.

 

[TBotV63]

There is already a plugin on the dodgeball servers that detects stealing.

But it doesn't integrate with gameMe, which is the issue here.

 

[Sudden]

Technically it is possible to modify gameME to the point of ignoring round when a player steals. However it constitutes a lot of work, merely to create a (imo ineffective) deterrant.


But then we'd still end up punishing someone for a rocket they were allowed to take by the rules. It also makes tk attempts even more annoying for those who actually care about points: You can now either die or not get any points for the round. Either way, you're screwed.

As for simply not awarding points, at least in eudb the primary issue isn't regulars, but people who come on the server either just to steal and screw around or those who don't know what they're doing. These people don't give much of a damn about points anyway, and in the case of the newbies, have nothing to lose in terms of not getting points, because they only tend to get very few (if any) anyway.



I don't give a damn about points, I doubt klay does either. Also, neither of us steal. The effort this will take is however not worth the outcome in our opinion. That is why we are giving our honest opinion on this matter, rather than acting like anything was "the end of the world". Add to that the fact, that half of the time gameME doesn't even work properly and a single point will hardly put a dent in someones rank if they indeed are a regular (and thus somewhat decent at the game) and know how to time their steals and you will see that this will have a neglegiable impact on both players and ranks.

I'll just reiterate here: Instead of putting a lot of development time into this, I'd suggest using the Reports section as a more direct (and more effective) way of dealing with this issue. If a regular constantly steals (or anyone for that matter), it can't be that hard to simply record a demo and submit it to the forums, can it?

It wouldn't take a lot of development at all. There is already a plugin that detects stealing and allows the admin to slay the stealer. Most likely only one or two methods/functions would have to be written to make the stealer lose points or not get any. Stealing is an issue because it often leads to the death of the intended target one or two reflects later. Also some players will get in the other team's face and try to reflect (steal) the rocket immediately for a return-to-sender insta-kill. You guys keep saying it won't deter stealers because one point won't affect their rank. But then you say it will greatly affect those stealing to save themselves. It's one point for everyone, it can't affect one group more than the others. If anything, one point won't hurt accidents/self-preservation, but will affect chronic stealers as many one point deductions could add up. I really do believe this is a good idea for the servers that will cause little to no harm to players that follow the rules. I hear your concerns about it, and while I disagree with your counterarguments, I feel like this idea at least deserves a trial. It can always be removed if I am wrong.

 

[Sudden]

But it doesn't integrate with gameMe, which is the issue here.

See above.