Declined Official Dodgeball CQC/Stealing Rules and Punishments (1 Viewer)

[RavenTyGamer]

Punishments.

This is absolutely ridicules when it comes to stealing on DB servers, and so are the punishments to. We NEED rules for it. I get having punishments on stealing is good but here are some examples when being punished for stealing is just insanely stupid.

Key
Green = Situation
Red = Response

When you are right next to a enemy, and you hit a rocket that wasn't your's when they tried to switch it over to you.

First of all this shouldn't be punished, if he try's to switch it to you, some people have a reflex to air blast, it will be completely random if it comes towards you but its a risk to take since you could easily die if it does.

And also to continue this, dont even say " Why are you right next to him? " some people have different play-styles and should not be punished for playing the easiest way for them. If its easier to get closer to the enemy that's there personal preference, they do not share your exact same idea.

When you are walking around in the middle and a rocket comes over to you, very close to you but not enough to hit you. But in a panic you air blast the rocket because it still does have a chance to hit you cause of Hit Reg, then all of a sudden you get slayed.

This has definitely happened to me once or twice each day I play this game and is possibly one of the most annoying. If the rocket is coming over to you and it isn't your's you SHOULD be able to air-blast it so you can live right? Wrong. You die by a slay for stealing, so you might as well just not hit it and give the enemy team the points.

This is 2 of the examples of punishments that just... are plainly stupid. Oh and also guess what? If you steal 3 rockets you get banned for 3 days. 3 DAYS for hitting a virtual rocket that was not yours, when at-least 1/3 times you stole were for good reasons. I definitely think the punishments for stealing are to harsh, except slaying that perfectly fine. But straight up banning for 3 days without even a kick? That is just insane to think about. You know whats also insane? Some of the admins dont even know if CQC is aloud or not and just do it by person preference. Its Russian roulette when it comes to CQCing on these servers and we should not be stressed every moment we play because no one is taking the time to make up rules for this!

Alright next thing im going to talk about is a long shot but if you dont like it please at-least consider the messages above then because that is the main thing im worried about.


C.Q.C (Close Quarters Combat)
Oh yes, probably one of the most controversial topics in the Dodge-Ball community... Should CQC be aloud? Some people say yes, some people say no. But let me just say THIS IS A DODGE-BALL SERVER. And I dont think getting slay'd because of your preferred play-style is very fair, or even really practical. So now were going to go on " What times should stealing be OK? "

Key
Red = Not Okay and should be punished.
Green = Good and should not be punished.

Being right next to a teammate then air-blasting there rocket.

Being right next to a enemy and air-blasting there rocket to there teammate or themselves.

Air-blasting the spawn rocket, when the game has just started.

Air-blasting the spawn rocket when the game has already started and the first rocket has passed.

Those are the main ones, and to all the people who say " CQC shouldn't be aloud cause new players will be mad and will leave " Well ban long range shots to cause they will be mad at that to, heck just take down the server cause some new players WILL leave. You actually need to practice to be good at this game and if you are to lazy then you will leave.


Sorry if this is insanely long but it is about time something is done, this has been nothing but talk for a while and it is about time someone has taken action and suggested public rules. I know people will disagree with me and if you do dont be afraid to comment down what you disagree with and maybe we can change it or talk about it, not as a argument but as us trying to make this community better. Because from what I can see people only dont want this because CQC'ers are annoying to handle and would just rather ban it as a whole instead of trying to figure out counters, if you have a different point of view and a valid counter-argument please tell me so we can talk about it once again NOT AS A ARGUMENT but as us trying to make the community better.

 

[TBotV63]

This is absolutely ridicules when it comes to stealing on DB servers, and so are the punishments to. We NEED rules for it. I get having punishments on stealing is good but here are some examples when being punished for stealing is just insanely stupid.

There are rules.

#4 , #19, #29 & USA – Dodgeball:

• No stealing or attempting to steal / intercept rockets.
Only attempt to airblast the rocket after hearing the sentry activation noise, unless you absolutely have to save yourself from dying. This does not include standing still and airblasting when the rocket comes close or moving toward the rocket and then airblasting.

Examples of Stealing:

1. Going after and attempting to airblast every rocket even without having heard the sentry alert.
2. Reflecting the rocket in spite of being able to avoid it.
3. Positioning yourself badly and then repeatedly stealing the rocket when it comes toward you instead of moving.

Exceptions to this rule are:

1. It is allowed to "wall" (statue as a group).
2. It is allowed to protect AFK teammates or teammates otherwise limited in their ability to play due to RTD or similar cause.
3. Nukes are exempt from this rule and may be stolen at all times.

Additionally, going over to the enemy's side ("crossing") is a risk you choose to take. If you do not leave enough space for your enemy and they are forced to steal, it’s not their fault; it’s yours. When an enemy crosses to your side, keep in mind that this is not forbidden in itself and is something you have to accommodate for.

• No blocking; leave space for others.
What is considered as blocking includes:

1. Getting close to an enemy and immediately returning their rocket when it's not yours.
2. Not giving other players enough space to handle the rocket.
3. Hindering enemies' movement.

It is allowed to bodyblock players who can't airblast the rocket and have been orbiting for too long. Examples of this include players who rolled "Stripped to Melee" in RTD and had their weapon removed.

You only get banned for three days on your third offense. Also I'd like to believe that admins are quite willing to explain parts of the rules if asked.

And also to continue this, dont even say " Why are you right next to him? " some people have different play-styles and should not be punished for playing the easiest way for them. If its easier to get closer to the enemy that's there personal preference, they do not share your exact same idea.

Yes my personal playstyle includes getting in peoples' face so they can't move properly. I also like to stand behind them spamming airblast in the hopes of stealing one of their rockets right as they reflect. Whether it's your playstyle or not, it's disallowed for a variety of reasons.

When you are walking around in the middle and a rocket comes over to you, very close to you but not enough to hit you. But in a panic you air blast the rocket because it still does have a chance to hit you cause of Hit Reg, then all of a sudden you get slayed.

If you're in the middle and you panic airblast at rockets... if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.

This has definitely happened to me once or twice each day I play this game and is possibly one of the most annoying. If the rocket is coming over to you and it isn't your's you SHOULD be able to air-blast it so you can live right? Wrong. You die by a slay for stealing, so you might as well just not hit it and give the enemy team the points.

This is allowed in principal, but it's up to the admin whether you are provoking a situation (by dancing around in the middle, getting in the way) or whether you could've avoided the rocket otherwise.

Some of the admins dont even know if CQC is aloud or not and just do it by person preference. Its Russian roulette when it comes to CQCing on these servers and we should not be stressed every moment we play because no one is taking the time to make up rules for this!

CQC is allowed. Blocking and stealing aren't. It's not hard.

Being right next to a enemy and air-blasting there rocket to there teammate or themselves.

I invite you to let me do that to you for an entire map, and then you can tell me how fun that was. That's not CQC. Besides, it's stealing and quite clearly (and specifically) disallowed.

Air-blasting the spawn rocket, when the game has just started.

Why make an arbitrary exception for this one particular rocket that is spawned once every round?

CQC is close quarter. CQC is not being a dick to your enemies or teammates. It is not CQC to stand behind someone and airblast in order to get cheapo kills. You can get close to your enemies and have a fast paced game without facehugging them and obstructing their movement.

 

[RavenTyGamer]

I can agree, some of your arguments are completely valid, but some are... Questionable? And I dont know if you are actually expecting me to mean it that way.

When I said " Why are you right next him " I did not mean it as " Spam air-blast in-front of there face " I meant it as standing next to enemy's in there spawn waiting for one of them to hit a rocket to you. High speed rockets are difficult in this area so you do have to attempt to air-blast at the same time, maybe attempt once and if they orbit twice, but never full on spam it, that is the CQC I want to be enabled on this server. So I do want you to realize this is a legitimate play-style that works well for me in most situations and usually allows me to top score in the DB servers quite easily. Being force to play long range, even though I am surprisingly capable, is not as fun then CQC and is just my personal interest.

And also to comment were you said " CQC is close quarter. CQC is not being a dick to your enemies or teammates. It is not CQC to stand behind someone and airblast in order to get cheapo kills. You can get close to your enemies and have a fast paced game without face-hugging them and obstructing their movement. " I never said anything related that is positive to my side that is annoying to teammates. CQC is not face-hugging and that is why we have the body-block rule and it is completely separate from stealing so I do not know why you think I condone it and why you think this will lead to it being more wide-spread. Also I dont know why you had to say " Cheapo Kills " because were killing them the same way everyone else does but closer and more risky, if anything you can die easily if you do 1 wrong movement so I think you should of mentioned that.

To were you said " If you're in the middle and you panic air blast at rockets... if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen. " I want you to know I never air blast rockets that are mine in the middle, it is for newer CQC players that are probably less calm when it comes to it. When I play CQC I know im taking a risk. Besides anyone who isn't playing CQC could be in the middle to, its not just related to us. But not being punished for this should be the same as the other thing you mentioned were if you are guaranteed going to be hit with a rocket, you can air blast even if it isn't yours. But most admins or quick to slay you before you can say anything about it so whats the use? That is also the reason I said it even though it is allowed " In Principle "

Were you mentioned CQC is allowed, I meant it as stealing rocket that the enemy has JUST air blasted to get them or a teammate killed. Not staying close which is the play-style I use in the server. Also when you say CQC ruins the fun, its because its banned and no one knows how to counter it. If you just unban it slowly over time people will figure out counters and start to realize CQC isn't going to be the death of everyone.

When I mentioned the spawn rocket, it is probably the most important rocket and everyone rushes down middle, a CQCer can easily get a double or triple on short maps because of everyone cluttered together and going toward the rocket straight on which is probably most people weakness, but it doesn't have to be a rule, maybe it can be a " Principle " like you said earlier.

Don't be afraid to comment back, I would love to hear your feedback on this idea and how I can improve it over time ( Which is what I plan to do)

 

[TBotV63]

"but some are... Questionable?" saem.

Being right next to a enemy and air-blasting there rocket to there teammate or themselves.

> right next to

This for me implies that you are blocking them and not giving them enough space to move. And this leads on to kills you get that way being "cheapo kills". Standing on the enemies' side is allowed though. (Standing right next to them isn't.)

Were you mentioned CQC is allowed, I meant it as stealing rocket that the enemy has JUST air blasted to get them or a teammate killed. Not staying close which is the play-style I use in the server. Also when you say CQC ruins the fun, its because its banned and no one knows how to counter it. If you just unban it slowly over time people will figure out counters and start to realize CQC isn't going to be the death of everyone.

Where did I say that CQC is no fun? And where does it say that CQC is banned? But airblasting a rocket the enemy JUST airblasted, provided it isn't yours, is against the rules. Why would we make an exception for that?

I want you to know I never air blast rockets that are mine in the middle, it is for newer CQC players that are probably less calm when it comes to it. When I play CQC I know im taking a risk. Besides anyone who isn't playing CQC could be in the middle to, its not just related to us. But not being punished for this should be the same as the other thing you mentioned were if you are guaranteed going to be hit with a rocket, you can air blast even if it isn't yours.

Even if my own grandma was standing in the middle, panic-airblasting every second rocket, it wouldn't be allowed. CQC or not,
being in the middle is pretty much provoking the situation of you (thinking that you're) being forced to airblast. Stand in the middle all you want, but dont be surprised that there are rockets. (And that that particular position doesn't give a valid excuse to steal)

Were you mentioned CQC is allowed, I meant it as stealing rocket that the enemy has JUST air blasted to get them or a teammate killed. Not staying close which is the play-style I use in the server.

No, stealing is not allowed, period, and i don't see why that should change. Getting close, as in close quarter combat is allowed.

When I mentioned the spawn rocket, it is probably the most important rocket and everyone rushes down middle, a CQCer can easily get a double or triple on short maps because of everyone cluttered together and going toward the rocket straight on which is probably most people weakness, but it doesn't have to be a rule, maybe it can be a " Principle " like you said earlier.

There are no short maps? Also rules aren't meant to cater to specific people with specific tastes in playstyle being allowed to get easy triple kills etc. It doesn't really matter that much. After all, you wouldn't want a rule that disallows you from coming over to my side only because I find it more enjoyable to kill people in rallies, would you?

 

[RavenTyGamer]

Thanks for your feedback! Allow me to comment on the questions you had with my idea's and answers.

By the way here is what I mean by CQC
CQC (To me and a large majority) = Air-blasting the enemy's rocket right when he does it, while keeping a distance away from him (Slightly or just in orbiting distance) then leading the rocket toward the enemy or one of his teammates nearby.

Where did I say that CQC is no fun? And where does it say that CQC is banned? But airblasting a rocket the enemy JUST airblasted, provided it isn't yours, is against the rules. Why would we make an exception for that?

You said near the end of your first argument, When you said " Lets see how fun that is to you ", which I replied, its only not fun because your not giving people a chance to learn counters by unbanning, and infact I believe that's the reason no one wants it to be a thing anymore, people are scared of it. And let me make this clear, CQC (atleast, my vision and what a large majority of people refer it to) was allowed atleast a year ago, then all of a sudden admins started changing the point of views and now it is discouraged (Which from what I can see, the reason people justified that sudden ban was because " CQC ruins the fun " and " Its technically stealing " and made loop holes for its total ban. Which leads us to today, were constant conversations about the CQC situation pop up and about what admins support CQCing or not. No one has really taken action about it and people just stand on the sidelines, im here to see if I can change anything.

Even if my own grandma was standing in the middle, panic-airblasting every second rocket, it wouldn't be allowed. CQC or not,
being in the middle is pretty much provoking the situation of you (thinking that you're) being forced to airblast. Stand in the middle all you want, but dont be surprised that there are rockets. (And that that particular position doesn't give a valid excuse to steal)

So that means that basic principle would not counter either? They made there choice to go to the middle? I did mean it just in the middle to that was just a example, I meant it as in general, if a rocket was fixing to near miss you, people who panic and airblast it should be treated the same as the people who get guaranteed hitted by a rocket in the same position. I do not know why your treating it like if it happened just in the middle.

There are no short maps? Also rules aren't meant to cater to specific people with specific tastes in playstyle being allowed to get easy triple kills etc. It doesn't really matter that much. After all, you wouldn't want a rule that disallows you from coming over to my side only because I find it more enjoyable to kill people in rallies, would you?

I dont know if you play TFDB as much as I to, but I do know there are some small maps in the popular rotation. If you are confused then here is what I classify as a small map.

Small map = You are at-least able to get a a little over orbiting distance by the third hit of the first spawn rocket

Also I want the first hit spawn rocket to be a all hit rocket. Why? Because everyone is cluttered together, and could easily lose HP if it goes toward a AFK teammate. Some people (Like me) are attracted to the spawn rocket and always try to go for first hits. And also that is the risk of rushing down mid with the spawn rocket, you can easily make the enemy crippled from the very beginning, and on a full server I know at-least 4 people on each teach will rush down mid with the rocket. Also the people who do not go for spawn rocket will be safe because by the second hit they will be away from the rocket. I see no down side to this rule change personally.

 

[klay]

By the way here is what I mean by CQC
CQC (To me and a large majority) = Air-blasting the enemy's rocket right when he does it, while keeping a distance away from him (Slightly or just in orbiting distance) then leading the rocket toward the enemy or one of his teammates nearby.

Idk what you and the large majority are smoking, but thats not cqc, thats blocking which is strictly against the rules.

No blocking; leave space for others.
What is considered as blocking includes:

1. Getting close to an enemy and immediately returning their rocket when it's not yours.
2. Not giving other players enough space to handle the rocket.
3. Hindering enemies' movement.

 

[TBotV63]

You said near the end of your first argument, When you said " Lets see how fun that is to you ", which I replied, its only not fun because your not giving people a chance to learn counters by unbanning, and infact I believe that's the reason no one wants it to be a thing anymore, people are scared of it. And let me make this clear, CQC (atleast, my vision and what a large majority of people refer it to) was allowed atleast a year ago, then all of a sudden admins started changing the point of views and now it is discouraged (Which from what I can see, the reason people justified that sudden ban was because " CQC ruins the fun " and " Its technically stealing " and made loop holes for its total ban. Which leads us to today, were constant conversations about the CQC situation pop up and about what admins support CQCing or not. No one has really taken action about it and people just stand on the sidelines, im here to see if I can change anything.

"was allowed atleast a year ago" The stealing rules have been in place for a good while. The first ban for stealing dates to somewhere in 2013.

"discouraged" No, it's flat out forbidden. No "loopholes" were made, what you describe here was intentionally forbidden.

 

[Bass]

@RavenTyGamer
Just say it straight.
You want to steal and not get punished.

Anyway. I'm highly against this idea. CQC was good. 2 years ago. Now players just stand near you, block you and don't give you enough time for your reaction. So yes, it ruins fun.

I personaly didn't allow players to steal if rocket was going to kill them, because of teammate standing behind them so they get his rocket. It's their own fault to stand where they stand. I just die, not steal to save myself, so I did slay everyone who stole rocket in such situation.

And that point with rushing to get spawn rocket...? Just wait for your rocket. lol.

 

[RavenTyGamer]

Idk what you and the large majority are smoking, but thats not cqc, thats blocking which is strictly against the rules.

Im saying that's what people refer to it, they dont refer to it as stealing, they refer to it as CQC.

"was allowed atleast a year ago" The stealing rules have been in place for a good while. The first ban for stealing dates to somewhere in 2013.

"discouraged" No, it's flat out forbidden. No "loopholes" were made, what you describe here was intentionally forbidden.

Let me rephrase it then, it went from " Oh he is CQCing " to " Im going to call a admin for you stealing "

Im saying I want the rules CHANGED, and revert it back so other people like me can enjoy playing there play style. Heck I learned how to CQC on a Panda Dodgeball server.

By the way im not saying remove the steal system in a whole, just allow exceptions so people can CQC on it again.

 

[RavenTyGamer]

Just say it straight.
You want to steal and not get punished.

Actually, I never see it stealing, and I quite possibly never will. I see at playing the game with the play style of CQCing.

Anyway. I'm highly against this idea. CQC was good. 2 years ago. Now players just stand near you, block you and don't give you enough time for your reaction. So yes, it ruins fun.

We already have a rule for that! Its called a body-blocking rule! And its not affiliated with stealing at all! And for not giving enough time for your reaction, its called being smart and using counters. I have one for people who try to CQC me. If you only take the time to learn you will be able to fight it yourself.

And that point with rushing to get spawn rocket...? Just wait for your rocket. lol.

People who are looking to get into the action as fast as possible (Like me) go after the spawn rocket. Like I said at-least 4 on a full server on each time. If you are not like one of those people its ok for you to think its weird.

 

[RavenTyGamer]

I just found out why we have so much differences, All of the people who have replied to this post are from the EU, while most of my experience is in the Panda Dodgeball TX server.

 

[Nooters]

Actually, I never see it stealing, and I quite possibly never will. I see at playing the game with the play style of CQCing.

So simply put, the whole point of this thread of yours is to ESSENTIALLY get rid of the stealing rule, because it interferes with your playstyle. Nice

 

[RavenTyGamer]

So simply put, the whole point of this thread of yours is to ESSENTIALLY get rid of the stealing rule, because it interferes with your playstyle. Nice

I said I DO NOT want to get rid of the stealing rule, I want to change it to were people who are blatantly stealing peoples rockets are getting punished and not MULTIPLE people who get punished using it the old way or even just trying not to die and airblast a rocket that is not there's to protect themselves, also here is a example of what I mean by blatantly.

Example. Going right next to a teammate or in-front or from the middle

 

[RavenTyGamer]

Also a lot of you have to understand, im not doing this thread JUST for the CQC. Im also doing it cause of the broken stealing punishments and situations people get punished for. Sure getting CQC back to were it was in the good ol days of panda dodgeball would be nice but I even stated

Alright next thing im going to talk about is a long shot but if you dont like it please at-least consider the messages above then because that is the main thing im worried about.

 

[DeadSworn]

As your issues refer to the usa db servers the usa admins will probably a better understanding of what you mean perhaps.
(but I'll try anyways)...

I am confused as to what you mean exactly though, you want to be able to airblast into someone from orbiting distance and not be punished for it?
Personally I think this is blocking and most of the time stealing when you're most likely doing it with teammates behind you, and I don't see how this would be enjoyable for the person on the receiving end.

Our rules allow for stealing to save yourself but it is generally up to the admins discretion, if you were slain when you couldn't move out the way or a similar situation then you should attempt to message the admin in the chatbox explaining that you couldn't move out the way in time, as admins we can't keep our eyes on every situation so we see a steal and don't always notice every detail.

Often I respawn people who I feel I may have slain too quickly, I'm sure the usa admins do too.

 

[Lighty]

So, you want us to add a rule that is very easily abusable so that it can accommodate your playstyle, which is to run at your enemies face and airblast every rocket that goes by? Because that's exactly what it sounds like you want us to do. The current rules perfectly allow CQC'ing without being an ass to everyone. Just don't block your enemies by getting too close and only airblast rockets that are actually yours. If you die it is your fault, it is clearly also written in our current rules

Additionally, going over to the enemy's side ("crossing") is a risk you choose to take.

TL DR from that I see, this whole suggestion is to create an abusable rule and allow him to get close and steal rockets to gain easy points.

 

[Wolfgang]

lmao no, attempt to change your ridiculous playstyle rather than the good set of rules currently in place

 

[Silorak]

Road to Jägermeister?

 

[RavenTyGamer]

Often I respawn people who I feel I may have slain too quickly, I'm sure the usa admins do too.

I realize that the CQC thing was a longshot but the thing im actually serious about is also what you just also said. Almost all the time USA admins DO NOT wait a second to slay and instantly do it. Even when I say " It was heading straight towards me! " they dont do a respawn.

lmao no, attempt to change your ridiculous playstyle rather than the good set of rules currently in place

Once again thats not the main thing im rooting for, its the broken stealing punishments not the CQC. The CQC was just a side dish compared to the main course.

Road to Jägermeister?

nice meme

 

[Callum]

I play on US servers a lot and i know you guys call it cqc, servers like ES, disc ff etc etc. It's called cqcing just like you call it back shotting not backfiring, just different terminology. But even in US, cqc is stealing, it's just allowed on most US servers, thats why you always get people standing in the middle of maps, stealing everything, waving and farming kills, it's just how it has always been in USA. Except for Panda DB. Panda db has it's own set of rules that are clear and stem from eu dodgeball, stealing is not as accepted over here as it is in US and that's just different style of play.

So the confusion between calling it cqc and stealing should be sorted here and now, cqc in america is just point blank stealing, describe it however you like but you're hitting the rocket whether it beeps or not because you're getting in their face and giving them very little choice in what direction to hit it. There are counters, plenty of them, orbiting a lot, dragging it from a wonky angle etc etc but it is seen as a cheap playstyle because the other person has very few options especially if there's more than 1 "cqcer" in your face.

But that aside, it's irrelevant because stealing like that is like tbot said, straight up forbidden in that situation and I'm sorry if you don't like that, i get that it's the US style for many servers but the Panda rules are clear, stealing like how you described is against the rules and this is why you get slayed, it's a no brainer slay, like not even debatable and again like tbot said a 3 day ban only occurs on the third offense (ban).