Minor JB fixes (1 Viewer)

[420noscope]

I'd like to start by saying that this JB server has the potential to be the best JB server in the game. The really important foundations are all there, it has a great culture where the players really want to have fun. The rules are centred around letting everyone have fun, not having round long arguments about minor misinterpretations. The admins are fair and fun and seem to care a lot.

Unfortunately the server isn't as active as it used to be. I believe that we can really improve the server with some minor changes and fixes, making it appealing to both new and returning players. I would love to see the Panda JB server full all the time, so I'm going to outline some ideas, changes, additions and removals which I think could really help us when we push to bring in new members.

Please comment on this post with any kind of criticism or support, feel free to speak your mind.

Contents:
1. Rules
2. Maps
3. Culture
4. Technical
5. Admins

1. Rules

a) Baiting

For the most part the rules on this server are amazing, they are clear and allow for flexibility without being overly restrictive. There is an exception however, from the JB rules thread:

"For the Prisoners part, You are NOT allowed to hit/kill a baiter, instead report them! Hitting a baiter will result in rebelling and you will be killed."

I feel like this rule is confusing when paired with the standard rules of most other JB servers and slows the game to a halt when enforced rigidly. It is also difficult to prove without continuous demos or an admin being online at all times. I would suggest bringing this rule in line with other servers, that baiters may be killed as long as the red does not chase. I would suggest the following wording.

"If a baiter enters a red's melee range the red may attack him as long as no warden orders are broken in doing so. I.e. you may freelook to attack baiters when afk frozen, but you may not use the keyboard. Once a blu leaves melee range the red may not chase."

This will simplify the baiting issue immensely, putting the obligation on blu not to bait reds, rather than on reds to report blus. Of course, baiting with sniper dots, miniguns or projectiles should still be an admin issue, I would suggest that the punishment for range baiting is a slay.

This leads us to...

b) AFK

AFK is currently not defined in the rules which leads to some confusion during games. I prefer the AFK/AFM variant where the mouse and keyboard commands are separate. I.e. AFK freeze means you may freelook, AFK AFM freeze means you may not. Obviously this is down to player preference so I won't go on about it. I would like to hear from you guys which version of AFK definition you prefer.

Finally, the biggest doozy of them all...

c) The !w command

It is not specifically stated in the rules, but I have heard from several reputable sources that once the warden dies no guard may use !w to continue the round and give out an LR. I submit that the point of the game is to beat your team and win LR, that's what makes people feel good and that's what makes people play. With that in mind I don't think we should arbitrarily make it harder to receive LR.

I suggest that we allow the blu team to continue using !w when the warden dies, either by accident or to a rebel so that the game may continue and that a single rebel can't ruin someone's fun by killing the warden.

2. Maps

All the maps are terrible and broken oh my god. There are too many of them to learn effectively and the rounds are too short to explore them fully.

a) The map cull

First of all let's discuss the maps themselves. Let's scrap them all. We have far too many anyway and trying to trim out the broken/unfun ones is far too hard. I think we should have 6 maps in rotation with a rate function (more on this in technical) and every month the lowest scoring one is replaced with another from the pool by vote. I'm going to suggest a few maps which I enjoy and work as far as I know. If you believe we should reduce the amount of maps too please list your chosen maps, along with reasons for inclusion/exclusion.

i) ba_jail_minecart_b7 | http://gamebanana.com/maps/174458 | Minecraft map

This is a classic JB map that works perfectly on every game, has a large variety of minigames in a well laid out compact design. Also YOU CAN SEE PEOPLE OH MY GOD WHY DO WE HAVE THE NIGHT VERSION OF THIS MAP EVEN ON ROTATION OH MY GOD I CANNOT SEE A THING ON THE NIGHT VERSION. I believe we should not include the night version of this map in rotation as it's basically the same but worse.

ii) ba_space_jail_v7 | http://gamebanana.com/maps/189080 | Space jail

Everyone loves space jail, space karts is a favourite of almost everyone, this map has all the classics like obby and sweeper. It's a fun map and allows for interesting rebellions as the armoury entrance is out of the way.

iii) ba_mlcastle_v10 | http://gamebanana.com/maps/180489 | Mario map

Another classic, extremely fun, large variety of minigames, well signposted, most people are familiar with it and most importantly it all works.

iv) jb_famous | http://gamebanana.com/maps/189822 | That weeb map err1 hates

This map is possibly the most frustrating map for rebels due to the long exposed hallways and multi-stage armoury access, but this server doesn't need to worry about that since perma-rebels are not common. This map quite simply has the best obstacle course in the game and everyone loves obby, so I'm voting this map purely on the strength of its obby.

Honestly I intended to post 5 maps but really thinking about it all the CS maps are broken. Snowday has too many minigames that don't work and is not well designed. Hopjb freekills people in crush game. Casuarina just has too much wasted space. I may edit this later, in the meantime please comment on my map choices and post your own!

b) Round time

I understand why short rounds make sense when you have so many maps to go through, but as I've said I think we should drastically reduce the number of maps in rotation. If we do, then longer round times not only become a good idea, they become a necessity. I would suggest tripling the current round time. I haven't done an exact count on how many games are in a round, but my gut feeling tells me triple would be about right. Please comment with your own opinions.

I believe that we need longer rounds because you can't fully explore a map in a short amount of time, some minigames get neglected because of this and instead of adding variety it causes stagnation. We always do obby, minefield and theatre on new maps, and then we go to a new map and do the same again. We're doing the same games, just on different maps. Longer rounds would allow us to do more than the top 3 or 5 on each map and really enjoy the less played minigames.

3. Culture

The culture on all panda servers is amazing, people are friendly and polite, but not to the point where they can't take a joke. I delight in posting ur mom every time the warden asks us what we want to do, and despite the mostly serious atmosphere we all get a good laugh out of it. Especially Wolf. Wolf loves my ur mom jokes. :3

a) Keep it up!

b) Noobs

The only issue I've seen so far with the culture here is how inexperienced players are treated. I understand that it's frustrating to deal with an incompetent warden, and yes most players should stay on red until they understand the game.

Unfortunately playing on red doesn't give you actual warden experience. Some people are shy or young and want to try it out, if they make a mistake they are imbued with micspam telling them to quit blu. They don't have the confidence to deal with the situation so it turns ugly quickly and the warden gets angry at the reds.

I would suggest, and this is completely experimental and off the top of my head, similar to first round freeday, a last round noob warden.

The basic concept is this, when a map vote happens, the next round we should encourage an inexperienced but willing to learn player to play as warden. The experienced blus help him through the round and the reds do their best to help too. If the warden screws up, it doesn't matter because the LR would be wiped by the new round anyway. This will let players really grow and learn rather than being told how shit they are, and teaching is a great way to learn yourself, so it would benefit experienced players as well.

I would really like to try this, but it is not a priority.

4. Technical

Technical issues are everywhere on this server. I'll jump straight in.

i) Votes

Most vote buttons do not actually trigger a vote. This makes favouritsm based minigames like kitchen impossible unless an admin is on. Please make vote buttons trigger votes.

ii) !w

You may only use !w at the start of a game 3 times in a round. This is restrictive and unnecessary. It prevents good wardens from blocking bad wardens if the bad wardens are not breaking any rules. This makes the game less fun for everyone, the guards who have to interpret the orders and the reds who aren't getting to play the games they want properly or receive LR and win. Please allow more than 3 !w commands per round. In the future, I would like to see a voting system that allows reds to vote for their favourite warden. Obviously a voting system would need restrictions, like a cooldown of 3 rounds if you have been warden 3 times in a row etc, but for now please allow the use of !w more than 3 times per game.

iii) Clock

Sometimes the round timer disappears. I do not know why. There is a fix for this. We need the round timer so we know how much time is in a round. Please make sure the round timer is present at all times.

iv) Cells

Many maps in rotation are not compatible with the warden menu and have a button to open/close cells. This is easily trollable. Please change all maps to menu compatible no button versions.

v) Glitched ammo

Sometimes dead players drop ammo packs, eg slayed guards, cell war victims. Please prevent this.

vi) Admin/donor mic glitch

Admins and donors are currently muted when the server changes until they play as the warden. This is a huge pain in the ass for everyone. Please fix this.

vii) Freedays

Freedays currently spawn in cells which interferes with cell wars and head counts. Please have them spawn outside cells. They also do not lose their freeday when they pick up ammo. Please make freedays lose their status when they pick up ammo.

viii) LRs

Some LRs appear to be glitched, rapid rocket day and HHH for instance result in a regular single cell hunger games style game. Please make these LRs work as intended.

ix) LRs 2: electric boogaloo

Receiving LR does not affect the round time at all. This means that some rounds can be delayed by 5-6 minutes while 10 people are dead. This is not fun. It also means that if you receive your LR in the dying seconds you will not get to choose properly.

Please fix this by changing the timer to 1:30 once LR is given no matter what. This allows adequate time to choose your LR and browse the menu, and is not excessive for people who are dead. For instance, if you are given LR at 0:10, the timer resets to 1:30 and the game ends in 1:30. If you receive LR at 9:25 the timer resets to 1:30 and the game ends in 1:30.

x) Mute on death

This is personal preference, but I would prefer that players not be muted on death. This is a very laid back server and often discussions happen around the orders, especially when players are in a minigame. Everyone will have more fun if they can discuss the progress of the last surviving red, and obviously the warden will not be giving orders in this situation.

I would suggest disabling mute on death in favour of no mutes ever.

5. Admins

ABOOS ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Anyway, the admins I've met so far do a great job, they're absolutely fair and flexible, friendly and approachable and strict when they need to be.

a) Mic checks

I would suggest giving the admins the authority to perform mic checks at will, or if they already have it, encouraging them to use it. Many people on blu have poor quality mics which makes their orders hard to understand. People with poor quality mics should not be on blu as it makes the game less fun for everyone else. This is not the same as inexperience, as inexperience is fixed with time. It may be unfair to younger players but we have to consider the userbase as a whole. I would suggest teambanning anyone with a poor quality mic for a short period of time, allowing them to return with a better mic.

b) More

Admins on jailbreak are not as common as they should be. I understand that there is a calladmin function, but as indicated by these forums having separate JB rules, JB is a much more intricate system. There are constant disagreements over minor issues which require an authority figure to answer definitively. These are not actually rule breaks so we cannot use the calladmin command.

I would suggest jailbreak only restricted admins who have some authority over the game and the ability to slay/mute/teamban. Many mature players could be asked to accept these positions meaning that there would always be someone to make a call on rules in the game. They would have minor powers in game to help them enforce the rules, but no gamebreaking features like a regular admin.

Thanks for reading, and please comment with your thoughts below!

 

[420noscope]

tldr

more mods, minor bug fixes, map overhaul, let the noobs do the end of the round warden, some rule changes and definitions

 

[Wolf]

1.

a) The baiting rules works fine if the servers had more active admins as it used to, the baiting rules as it is now doesn't seem to work great for non-administrated Jailbreak.

b) AFK means Away From keyboard, if the Warden wants to add something to it it's their choice to do so but they have to say it.

c) I complained a lot about the !w and !uw command and said it was trouble from the very beginning.
A lot of people seem to like it but only the !w command is allowed once in the beginning in the round once.

This means that the !uw is completely useless and can even get you banned, the best thing is to remove it completely.
If people like to !w in the beginning a lot then someone has to fix that it only works once for the beginning of the round, hotfix would just getting rid of them all together.

2.
I didn't look at all your listed maps, but what I do know that this is the result of a lot of people complaining that Jailbreak was dying and it was because of it's lack of maps.
I personally don't agree with this but many on this community said so, most of the maps we now have are duplicates or broken ones we don't need.

The is even one fully written in russian while it's forbidden to speak or type a diffrent language on Panda! (But I do love the map)
The 6 Minecraft clones are just stupid... I've seen map votings with only Minecraft as an option. This need to stop.

3.
We as an Admin team try to help new players and help them out by telling what to do, we don't punish them if their new and the system we have should help a lot.
It's just (once again) that we don't have many admins on Jailbreak lately, this would hopefully increase in the future.

4.
The owner should be aware of the issue's the server has, I've had a updated list of the bugs in the gamemode.
It's still the very same ones of last year so far.

Maybe he needs a reminder of the issue's so good that you listed them once again.
Also, Don't remove the mute on death please trust me.

5.
It's difficult to judge this topic as it is now.
The Admins who are on Jailbreak now lately (the 2 of them) are trying their best to help out.
But don't forget that they don't have Jailbreak as their main server to take care for.
The are doing a great job so far but there might be some small hic-ups with the punishments and rules.

But we can use all the help we can get.
Once again, hopefully this will improve in the future.

 

[420noscope]

2 new issues from a game I'm currently in:

Please add the !taunts plugin so we can yoloswag in carts and use rps for LR.

Please enable button pushing output so we may determine who pushed buttons without permission.

 

[420noscope]

Thanks for the input wolf!

I'd like to respond to a couple of points, a definition of AFK in the rules would solve any issues with misunderstandings. This would not prevent wardens modifying the definition in game, but if they did not define it then everyone would have a standard reference.

I really have to strongly disagree with the baiting rule as is. It's archaic and obstructive. Positioning is a natural part of the game and should not be dictated by admin discretion. If you get close to a red, they hit you until you move away. It's simple and self sustaining. Admins watching for baiters would not only make it harder for the admins to enjoy the game, but also stunt the flow of the game to the point where everyone is too concerned with not baiting to play the game properly.

At the very least make baiting a slayable offence rather than bannable.

Thanks again, and keep posting ideas as they come to you!

 

[Wolf]

Thanks for the input wolf!

I'd like to respond to a couple of points, a definition of AFK in the rules would solve any issues with misunderstandings. This would not prevent wardens modifying the definition in game, but if they did not define it then everyone would have a standard reference.

I really have to strongly disagree with the baiting rule as is. It's archaic and obstructive. Positioning is a natural part of the game and should not be dictated by admin discretion. If you get close to a red, they hit you until you move away. It's simple and self sustaining. Admins watching for baiters would not only make it harder for the admins to enjoy the game, but also stunt the flow of the game to the point where everyone is too concerned with not baiting to play the game properly.

At the very least make baiting a slayable offence rather than bannable.

Thanks again, and keep posting ideas as they come to you!

It may be frustrating for some admins, but then again. It's our task to Administrate on there.
We would warn the player to stop baiting and slay him to start out with and see if he learns from his mistakes.
This will end up with a guardban so those players won't be able to Join BLU again.

We got a Rebel status which tells the BLU team who we can kill.
Panda is one of the only servers who don't have the hit baiters rule in it and I personally think that it's part of what makes this server as charming as it is.

 

[Capp]

Before I start, I've gathered a bunch of previous suggestions regarding Jailbreak. Please read through them.

Spoiler

https://www.panda-community.com/threads/suggestion-rule-for-jailbreak.7994/
https://www.panda-community.com/threads/jailbreak-detours-delaying-rule-suggestion.8533/
https://www.panda-community.com/threads/save-jailbreak.8339/
https://www.panda-community.com/threads/remove-some-jailbreak-maps.9312/
https://www.panda-community.com/threads/jb_fuckzz_finals-revive.8060/

1. a)
I was already thinking about allowing reds to hit baiters, and I would actually aprove that due to the lack of admins, wich makes that "instead report them!" part kindof useless.

1. b)
Most of the people are fine with it how it is right now, there is no need to extend it or edit it.

1. c)
People already suggested removing the !uw command, since its not allowed to be used anyway. But I'm not sure if it's really necassary to let guards take over the warden position if it gets free. Like in 1. b), most people seem to be fine how it is right now.

2. a)
See https://www.panda-community.com/threads/remove-some-jailbreak-maps.9312/
and Wolf's input.

2. b)
Only 3 rounds in about 45 minutes map time? Are you insane?! The round timer was inplemented by the plugin creator to prevent delaying. You can explore the map in multiple rounds too, you just have to make sure that you are still participating. Besides, the warden mostly askes the reds wich minigame should be played or decides that by himself. Making rounds longer will not affect that.

3. b)
It's unexperienced.
We cannot provide a full tutorial on the server, and reading or watching tutorials might give you basic things you could do but you kindof have to find an own way for it. Its true that the new players wont really learn how to be a good warden while sitting in red(How is that supposed to work if there arent even players on blu?!).. If they decide to try it out, they still can ask for help or for directions, as you said the players are "friendly and polite", and some of them even tell you what todo even if not asked for it.

4. i)
Do you mean votes wich can be triggered through e. g. the warden menu or through a button on the map or in the kitchen? If you mean the first one, it's very unlikely that this is going to be realized. You can think of the reasons by yourself, why should votes be restriced for everyone but full gameserver admins?

4. ii)
This is how theplugin was designed, this is not on our end. A voting system has to be developed first, but noone is really interested to do that.

4. iii)
This is a misconfiguration, wich might be kindof my fault? Not sure, but I know this can be done.

4. iv)
This is an issue with the maps, as the plugin says, the doors are just not compatible. But again, this has something todo with the plugin itself. (tl;dr, can be fixed, with a lot of work.)

4. v)
This issue has been there since Gun Mettle, and can be only fixed by the plugin creator(i guess?). Players will get punished if they abuse that bug.

4. vi)
It was told that there is a patch ready wich solves this bug, but was never applied then.

I will cover the rest later, I've ran out of time writing that text.

 

[KomodoHunters14]

I would suggest jailbreak only restricted admins who have some authority over the game and the ability to slay/mute/teamban. Many mature players could be asked to accept these positions meaning that there would always be someone to make a call on rules in the game. They would have minor powers in game to help them enforce the rules, but no gamebreaking features like a regular admin.

So a position like JB Helper? That is actually a decent idea, as its current state (Utter dead shithole when the regs arnt on) is filled with freekillers, no mics, little kids with crap mics, big kids with crap mic etc. (And Banana dont forget Banana) this could play out like Long Term regulars would be able to have some power to assist and those who are looking to become admin for said server can get a massive help as by then they know the main commands

 

[420noscope]

Hi Capp, thanks for your input. I'd like to start by pointing out a minor grammatical error in your post. Please see this image re: inexperienced/unexperienced. http://i.imgur.com/ZteJbnO.png

I would suggest not trying to be hostile to users in future, and if you do attempt to do so please at least google before you post to avoid humongous errors like this. You can also install a spellchecker on most browsers these days, I'd be happy to help you install one.

I assure you that nobody is fine with the current inability to use !w mid round. It causes no end of frustration. I would love to see more of you on the server so we can witness the frustration together.

I believe I was clear on the voting issue, buttons that trigger votes do not trigger votes. This is clearly a bug and should be fixed. Since there is no way for a regular player to trigger a vote we have wardens deciding on their own whether to kill or pass the contestant. This is clearly favouritism and can be fixed by making buttons which trigger votes actually trigger votes.

There are fixes for every bug I have mentioned. The fact that it's not your fault does not mean that you are absolved from fixing it. Please fix the bugs.

That covers all the main points, so I'll address the minor issues.

The AFK definition does not need to be added, it would just be a nice thing to do. The last round inexperienced warden thing is an idea which we can develop at a later date, but I believe it would be a unique and quirky aspect of the server that would add to the culture. Consider it sort of like a freeday but with a warden. It's mostly a meme round but we try to help someone out. It's the designated "you may not micspam kill urself to the warden" round. Yes you can't do that already. Yes people do it anyway. Yes we report them. No it doesn't change anything.

I'm not going to argue about the maps because getting the myriad of bugs fixed is a higher priority. All I will say is that one map is entirely in Russian. It's great that you're letting people vote remove maps, but please consider a clean slate.

Thanks again, I look forward to the next half of your post!

 

[420noscope]

Yeah JB Helper would be a good name. They would not have to go through the arduous application process and would not have to dedicate an excessive amount of time to the panda community, they would be ad hoc mods so to speak. No obligations, no responding to calls on other servers, just regular players who are familiar with the rules and can settle disputes in seconds rather than a massive cross map debate.

Thanks for the support, remember to spam your friends with this thread so we can hear more opinions!