Is camping against the rules in VSH? (1 Viewer)

Is waiting for hale to arrive at your trap (that works) against the rules?


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Hellboy

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@Kruphixx has been threatening me and my brother with a ban today, after slapping us yesterday, for doing this strategy.

His argument is that 'not doing damage is not allowed', however, I disagree.
Wasting time deliberately, not doing damage, is against the rules.
By his logic, engi nests are not allowed, snipers hiding in one corner of the map is not allowed, and a couple of medic-heavy strats are not allowed.

The strategy is me and my brother, being medics in the map 'Weaponsdepot', in the tunnel.
We always go in there first thing in the round to make sure we get a spot.
We usually end up killing the hale if he survives to the end of the round, as we have many hours of experience with this strategy. In fact, Kruphixx should be able to confirm this after tonights game.

This is what Kruphixx is arguing is not allowed.

I've tried reasoning with him in the chat, saying that if he can show me the rule that states this is in fact not allowed, that we will gladly stop doing it.
However he didn't provide anything yesterday after attempting to talk to him in the shoutbox, and today he threatened us with a ban.
Once again, tried talking to him today, but no response, other than a sassy 'sure' to my arguments.

I'm not doing this to out him, but because I'm worried we will get banned for something that, in my opinion, is not against the rules.
And since Kruphixx doesn't seem interested in being reasoned with, this is my attempt.
 

Kruph

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By his logic, engi nests are not allowed, snipers hiding in one corner of the map is not allowed, and a couple of medic-heavy strats are not allowed.

It's still possible to actively deal damage as the classes you mentioned. You're not forced to stay in one place when you're playing as them.

The strategy is me and my brother, being medics in the map 'Weaponsdepot', in the tunnel.
We always go in there first thing in the round to make sure we get a spot.
We usually end up killing the hale if he survives to the end of the round, as we have many hours of experience with this strategy. In fact, Kruphixx should be able to confirm this after tonights game.

This is what Kruphixx is arguing is not allowed.

I've tried reasoning with him in the chat, saying that if he can show me the rule that states this is in fact not allowed, that we will gladly stop doing it.

I believe this falls under the "No teaming" rule. You have to actively help your team and deal damage to the hale. If you're just sitting in the tunnel for 90% of the round , waiting for the hale, then you're not really helping your team much.
 

_Black

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1650920660817.png


So judging by what you said is that you and your brother go to that spot, do nothing for most of the round until its only you and the hale left.

1650920781855.png

For me it seems you sit there the entirety of the round and only kill him when he survives and its only you and him left.
So your doing literally 0 effort to help ur team in any way.
If I got it wrong ill apologize, but for me it seems that Kruphixx is in the right.
 

Hellboy

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'Doing literally 0 effort to help your team'
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Not to mention we did this strat right after killing Kluphixx, killing Kikka (also one of, if not the best player on VSH) right after, dealing 6-7k damage each.
We finished this round of Weaponsdepot with 170, and 193 points respectively, playing 60% of the map as medics.

With good hales, Knejt and I are usually the ones finishing the hale.

I just don't see how this strategy is any different to an engineer sitting in a corner, with for instance, a telefrag trap. Or an engi nest that is very hard to reach. In principle, it's the exact same thing, but with a different class.
 
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Spam Goose

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The hale can easily go for them 1st cant he? I also highly doubt Hellboy and his brother are teaming with every hale they go against. Their strat is a great idea and there is no rule on VSH saying you aren't allowed to camp
It's still possible to actively deal damage as the classes you mentioned. You're not forced to stay in one place when you're playing as them.



I believe this falls under the "No teaming" rule. You have to actively help your team and deal damage to the hale. If you're just sitting in the tunnel for 90% of the round , waiting for the hale, then you're not really helping your team much.
sorry kruphixx but engineers have no reason to leave their nest except to die, snipers wont leave their spot if it works and heavy medic combos don't have a reason (just like engis) to leave their spot and get caught out.
 

Magglet

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This does come across as a strategy more than teaming imo.

Perhaps it becomes acceptable to find a camping spot in rounds when 5 reds are left or something. No flame to beamer it is an incredibly effective strategy I have used many times but hale is already garbage to play.
 

Madact

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I think what's interesting if you have to look at it from the perspective of 'what can hale do about this?'

Let's place an engineer in this scenario. They've set up a telefrag trap in that hallway lets say middle section. The hale comes through, getting probably a considered amount of pushback but reaches it. They rage, destroying the telly first. Engie is probably close to the trap to get the timing just right. If they didn't go through they could run away to build a new one which takes time. By then the hale can do something about it., in both scenarios.

Now let's look at this medic situation. I'm assuming you're using crusaders crossbows. Those bad boys, particularly down that corridor that never miss with the correct players deal a lot of damage. There's probably some pushback but I wouldn't think it's as much as the engineer. Since there's two of you though you're doing way more damage to the hale than an engie would. If the hale decided to go down the corridor taking the damage, the crossbow also builds uber. By the time the hale reaches you, both of you have uber. One pops on the other and visa versus. Hale can either stay close that risks the building of more uber or fly away. If they choose to fly away you just end up back in the corridor to reset the strat.

Hale can also attempt to avoid the corridor by attempting to switch sides. If the medics are smart enough they'd say in the middle waiting to see which side hale comes from. So he can't do anything about that.
Same with pressing the water button. hale would just end up being trapped in a corridor (or the small building) with two medics. The time it takes for the water to come up and down...With you both in the corridor spamming...Hale comes down...still can't do anything...
Thinking of rage too. By the time hale is close enough, you guys would of popped your uber.

Only time hale can get you is at the beginning of the round. That means focusing and hopefully not getting harassed by the other players. There's also two ways to go to the corridor so hale would have to pick the correct one.

It's a pretty unfair situation. But I'm no VSH player and have no idea if pushback plays a bigger part or engi does deal a great amount of damage. Also my memory of that map maybe vague and if I got the wrong map I'll just remove this part of the comment for being dum dum.

But the engie strat the hale has a chance. Even if they have a medic buddy they cannot keep building their infinite uber in a small space.



Is it teaming? No it's not. Teaming is purposely not damaging the hale because you're friends with them or...want to be friends with the hale. What has come during the times though is that it's expected to actively attempt to damage the hale. But then camping gets involved in this. Hence the rules where made for camping but only to FF2 at the time as VSH wanted nothing to do with it. I guess now it's questioned and the rules need a change. In fact, I hope you don't mind @Kruphixx , was going to make a suggestion to make the rules clear on this and any other suggestions towards it. Possibly merging both VSH and FF2 ruleset together as, surprising to some, ff2 and vsh usually share the same map pool (apart from maybe one or two maps).

It's either that or we remove maps with long corridors...I don't believe anybody wants to remove a popular map.
 

Magglet

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A simple map edit could fix the issue. Triple or quadruple the corridor size and the strategy has counter play
 
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Hellboy

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I agree, the strategy is extremely effective, if executed properly.

But until a specific rule prohibits this kind of gameplay (either the strategy itself, or camping/not doing damage), can we agree that we cannot be banned for this?
 
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Solar

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If there is an ammo pack in the tunnel? If so wouldnt it just be easier to remove that from there? so you wont be able to camp there the whole round since at some point you would run out of ammo
 

Kruph

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I agree, the strategy is extremely effective, if executed properly.

But until a specific rule prohibits this kind of gameplay (either the strategy itself, or camping/not doing damage), can we agree that we cannot be banned for this?

Fine, this strategy and any other strategies similiar to this will be allowed for the time being, until the rules for VSH (maybe) change. We'll see after I make that suggestion.
 
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