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General problems, bugs etc. in VSH

Discussion in 'Saxton Hale - 193.192.59.191:27055' started by Roar, Jul 19, 2018.

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[READ FIRST PARAGRAPH] Do some bosses need to be removed/changed?

  1. Vagineer (YES)

  2. Vagineer (NO)

  3. HHH Jr. (YES)

  4. HHH Jr. (NO)

  5. Christian Brutal Sniper (YES)

  6. Christian Brutal Sniper (NO)

  7. Easter Bunny (YES)

  8. Easter Bunny (NO)

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Roar

    Roar Trial Gameserver Admin
    Trial Gameserver Admin Donator

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    Steam:
    Before I begin with the main topic of the thread - please vote in the poll for the 'Special Round' bosses which need some work - some of these bosses are far too overpowered and some underpowered. For example CBS' Huntsman and tiny hitbox on top of usual Hale stats makes him nearly unbeatable. If you have any suggestions for how these bosses can be improved, leave a reply. If you vote, please vote for just ONE of each boss (either YES or NO) thank you.

    Hey,

    It has been brought to my attention that there are a few things in VSH that could do with updating, fixing or removing. With the help of @Riven ✭@Riven ✭ I'm going to list a few of these in this thread. If you believe there are other problems on #05 then feel free to add them in a reply to this thread. Also if you know of a great or better way to fix some problems let us know too!

    Problem: Hale has goomba stomps. It interferes with intentionally designed equipment pieces made to give specific classes a chance in the mode. Hale's team (which is almost always blue, i dont know why it's sometimes red) should not have access to goomba stomps because it invalidates the Heavy, the Demoman's shields, Soldier's battalion's backup and even the God mode rtd. It also instantly kills Spy with his deadringer up but that's honestly the least of the concerns.
    Fix: Remove the goomba stomp for the BLU team. Hale is on BLU for most maps in our rotation - on the maps which do switch the teams we may just have to deal with not being able to goomba for a few rounds (and Hale being able to goomba) which is better than having Hale able to goomba all the time.

    Problem: Nominations can be abused to nominate toxic or unliked maps which result in the server losing players. Some players have been seen doing this over the last few days by nominating military_area, then nominating militaryzone (the same map, just updated graphics) so people have to play military 2 times in a row.
    Fix: Scramble all nominations when the time comes to vote so the first-nominated map isn't always option 4. Even though there is a message reminding players not to just hit 4, unfortunately it still happens - at least with scrambled nominations the map vote can't be abused.

    Problem: There is no AFK manager and it causes more problems than it prevents by not having one. We receive calls for AFK players sometimes & it would make it easier on admins if they were automatically kicked and active players would be happier there aren't players taking up limited slots for classes.
    Fix: ... Just put an AFK manager on VSH please. Here is the previous AFK manager thread with 8 'Agree' reactions I think the VSH community does want it.

    Problem: Hale should not have rage regen because when there are no admins on to enforce, Hale can camp on last alive to build up rage to deal with the final person making it somewhat unfair.
    Fix: Rage regeneration to be replaced by 5 - 10% rage gained on kill.

    Problem: Donors can force people off limited classes. Although no class limits is a great idea for donors, it appears that it's making some non-donors on the server unhappy as the system automatically removes players at the end of the round who overfill the class.
    Fix: Increase the class limits depending on how many donors are playing said class - this may require a new plugin to be written.

    Problem: Sydney Sleeper is dealing around 600 damage right now on headshots because it's bugged. The Sleeper was updated to be able to headshot in normal play to add jarate to the target, but VSH has not updated with this, so Sniper can now deal huge damage very quickly.
    Fix: Unfortunately we are not sure how to fix this one - maybe there is a way to revert the Sleeper back to old stats for VSH.
    Again, feel free to reply to this thread with other problems or bugs you may have found on #05 VSH - with or without ideas to fix.

    Tagging appropriate people:
    @Kevin@Kevin ; @Ron@Ron ; @iceviet@iceviet ; @P N N@P N N ; @Le Captain Pootis@Le Captain Pootis ; @Matth@Matth ; @Magglet@Magglet


     
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  2. Matth

    Matth Trial Gameserver Admin
    Trial Gameserver Admin

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    Totally Disagree. Let's always remember it's 1vsALL, and some times the only way Hale can win against a camp (i.e. on crevice) is superjumping over engies' heads/sentries and sometimes (with good crouching skill) stomping them or the pyros who are defending them (or are supposed to defend them eheh). REDs don't use to watch carefully the environment, but it's their problem. I think stomping must stay there for the Hale. Plus, it's a problem when Hale is on RED as you said. Still, we can't deny players to stomp the Hale, since there are 2-3 classes which can do if they have a good tactic/skill. We can't deny it, even if this is for few rounds or one single round. At least in my opinion.

    Partially Agree. Last week that sheeet used to happen 2 days in a row, about militaryarea and militaryzone one after the other.


    Totally Agree. Besides the real AFKers which are the major problem, there are also players who just waste time taunting somewhere for no reason, not helping the team. AFK manager should already have been a thing in our server.

    Disagree. I get your point. Still there are MANY rounds in which the Hale is left alone 1vs1 against a flying pyro or a flying soldier, who annoy the hale and just deal few damage to him. Boring ending of the round, people gotta wait several minutes for no reason, and most of times it's just timewasting, 'cause after a big catching-war the Hale manages to kill the pyro/soldier, thanks to rage.

    Without rage, the Hale would have even less chances to stop that sheeet. At least in these cases, he can try to get as closer as possible to the annoying flying pyro/soldier and rage-kill him.

    Neutral. Donors actually pay money to get this and other advantages, but ye I assisted to many non-donors get mad at it, for good reason.


    Neutral. As sniper I totally always use Sydney Sleeper, and ye I saw that after headshots I gain 600 damage. The fact is, I totally ignored it was a bug, if it really is.
    I remember in the past when I did hit Hale with Sleeper at full-charge, I got 1 point from Gameme for "Jarated player" (or something similar), as it happens for mad milk and the scout. It's already 2-3 months that this is not happening anymore: Sydney Sleeper does not jarate Hale anymore. After a fully-charge hit, I get 450 damage, then I reinstantly hit him and I do not get headshots as you say. I do get them with the 600 damage just if I aim properly.
    Then I don't really know, this is not happening to me at least.

     
  3. Geronimo

    Geronimo Active Member

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    Steam:
    Ok, I know this is a VSH thread that shouldn't impact FF2 at all. I just want to leave my opinion as someone who cares about VSH?
    I'm just going to leave this here as someone who has a 'decent' understanding of VSH..

    Ok, ok. I guess FF2 has a slightly altered version of the Goomba Stomp plugin. Instead of "removing" Goomba Stomping, I recommend changing the VSH Goomba Stomp plugin to the one in the FF2 servers. If I remember correctly, FF2 Goomba Stomps do not go through the Demoman's shield. I think that a Soldier or Heavy getting stomped is fair game because you can dodge the stomps if you know what you are doing. Also the Godmode thing is a problem with RTD, since as a sort of long-time FF2 player I can say that the 'new' Godmode we got when RTD was updated awhile back made the stomping possible.

    Okay. I am really half and half on this. I think it's a good idea, but it seems useless at the same time. I personally want Military Area to be removed, it's outdated and we have Zone!

    YES! VSH and FF2 need an AFK manager!

    As I said, I don't play VSH as much as I do FF2. I assume this means the boss regens rage when there are Scouts left. (or any class if VSH is different, I don't know) If I was boss I would very much like regen rage if I can't get a flying Pyro or Soldier. Your 'fix', to me, would make rounds go by SLOWER if there is a flying Pyro or Soldier.

    that's how we get them to donate, shhhhh

    I think this is, once again, a VSH thing. I have never seen this happen in a game of FF2. Easiest way I think of fixing it is to give it the FF2 stats if they are not also broken.
     
  4. Riven ✭

    Riven ✭ New Member

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    Steam:
    I'll quote the whole thing out of laziness, sorry.
    I'll tackle the points that I need to correct you on.

    We are not talking about removing Hale's stomp. We are talking about removing the Goomba plugin of all Bosses which is because there already is an existing tool for Hale that does exactly what the Goomba plugin does, but better.

    Hale has (since launch as far as I know) a property on his fists that allows him to deal 10x the amount of mantreads damage
    upon landing on another player. The treads are very functional and do exactly what you said Hale needs, allowing him to instantly kill enemies he lands on if he lands on them after a right mouse jump or a weighdown. What they don't do however, which is what the gosh darn stupid goomba plugin does, is that it instantly kills people through all resistance effects and launches him up slightly allowing him to accidentally goomba another person. +, and don't ask me why, it for some reason kills Demoman through his shield at times. It's a mechanical mess that works the way it sees fit and it often leaves people infuriated that it works smoothly for Hale while the players the tool was intended for can't get a goomba off half the time.

    That's why it's for the best to remove the Goomba plugin, because it interferes with intentionally designed tools made to survive things like Hale's stomp. It plays too much into Hale's favor and makes him stronger than he's intended to be.

    As for the Rage Regen point, I don't know how much I agree or disagree with your statement because you're right with the stalling thing... but is that really the fault of the Pyros and Soldiers and not the fault of military base being an absolute mess with SIX full healthkits laying around on the map? Because from my experience, this ridiculous "Lemme just jump around 24/7" bs is the result of oversaturated healthkits on military and doesn't happen anywhere else. I've been playing Pyro for a long time and not even a Dispenser can supply me an endless amount of flarejumps. It deals a lot of damage not just to jump but also to land and take the full force of fall damage. It often leaves me at good health if I swerve correctly and avoid fall damage, but it completely handicaps me if I take fall damage. This is really just the fault of military in my opinion, so I'd argue in favor of removing rage regen and working on military rather than defending the stalling due to this hellish map doing it's work.
     
  5. Riven ✭

    Riven ✭ New Member

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    Steam:
    To correct "That's why it's for the best to remove the Goomba plugin, because it interferes with intentionally designed tools made to survive things like Hale's stomp. It plays too much into Hale's favor and makes him stronger than he's intended to be.", I meant to say it's bes to remove Goomba for the blue team.
     
  6. Teddi

    Teddi Donator
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    Steam:
    So you want to remove goomba's for only hale or for everyone? Red and blu team?
    Or is it only for the hale?
     
  7. Magglet

    Magglet Trial Gameserver Admin
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    Tbh I like the ideas. I disagree with parts but most of the stuff has been said.

    Can we maybe add an anti-suicide plugin like in ff2? Also, afk manager would be great. Class limits are the only thing I disagree on. Unfortunately for normal players, admins/Donors do get priority on classes and removing class limits on classes such as pyro will literally make me want to put my fucking head through a wall.

    Other than that good suggestions :) nice to see active interest in things other than the demose of the hell ridden class that is pyro.

    Good day all :)
     
  8. Riven ✭

    Riven ✭ New Member

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    Steam:
    It's exclusively planned to be removed for Hale. It's not that Hale does not deserve to have a stomp ability, it's that he right now has two stomp properties built into him, the mantreads and goomba. The goomba script however breaks weapons and classes that would otherwise be more balanced by instantly killing them, like the Heavy who could survive a mantread stomp in certain situations. The Mantreads however takes things into consideration like the Demoman's shield without instantly killing him due to an unknown bug.
     
  9. Aquilot

    Aquilot Active Member

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    Steam:
    Is it a VSH feature or is it a problem the fact that Hale doesn't instantly come down after crouching in mid-air like in FF2?
     
  10. Geronimo

    Geronimo Active Member

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    Steam:
    Some FF2 bosses don't instantly, or at all, weighdown. Might be a problem.
     
  11. Je Hooft

    Je Hooft New Member

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    How about fixing the gunboats being completely useless when next to hale? every time I rj and hale happens to be close by, the 60% resistance goes away for some reason... It's incredibly annoying and it has killed me multiple times.
     
  12. Le Captain Pootis

    Le Captain Pootis Trial Gameserver Admin
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    Steam:

    Entirely disagree. Goombas are an essential part of the VSH experience, which also goes for the hale. If you're skilled (or lucky) enough to goomba someone, they deserve to die so I'm against the removal of it.

    I entirely agree. This would also create diversity when it comes to maps, cause we usually play the same 4-6 maps. With this feature, it also means that just because you're the first to nominate a map, there's not a 95% chance it'll get picked just because it'll receive the number 4 (which everyone presses)

    Yes. Just yes.

    Meh, imo this is not a problem as such, as I haven't heard anyone complain about this - however I could see how it could become a problem. Idk if it's worth the trouble for Kevin though, (or Ron) to script this.

    Doesn't this defeat the whole purpose of having donators having no class limits, if there's no class limits for anyone? I mean we could potentially be seeing like 3 engineers + 2 donator engineers (as an example, could be a lot worse with spies or scouts). I'm just saying we could be seeing an exaggeration of classes that are highly sought after already. Kind of against this atm.

    Yeah, all though I haven't noticed this, I'm all for fixing this.


    Edit: formatting done fucked up. Won't let me delete half of the "quote" things so just live with the fact it's broke :)

    Edit 2:
    It usually takes a while, like 3-5 seconds after getting blasted into the air. However sometimes it works instantly.
     
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