Declined Gameserver Rules appendix suggestions (1 Viewer)

[ThatOneBitch]

As per my wonderful conversation with some of the staff today, some of the rules, specifically those regarding

c) Inappropriate personal content
Publicly visible content within sprays, signs, or avatars that is deemed sexual, discriminatory, or derogatory in depiction and/or implication, is forbidden.

are needlessly opaque and legally indefensible.

The term "deemed" as refers to post-awareness application and puts the blame in the post rather than present scene. Those who have not read the rules have the defense of not knowing the rules were stated and can be unjustly banned/punish.
I recommend changing it to simply...

Publicly visible content within sprays or avatars of a sexual, discriminatory, or otherwise inappropriate, is forbidden.

Again, I heard the weak excuse of "use common sense", but for server rules that doesn't hold water.

Additionally, opening the prospect of what is truly deemed "adult content", is up to the discretion of the admins, but considering there is no outward guide into what is considered adult content, there is a legal gray area surrounding said term.

For example: It's commonly accepted that pin-ups are acceptable content. Additionally, pin-ups with straps being removed are still considered acceptable content. Where is that line drawn? If the character is clearly in the nude, but obscured by mist, is that adult content, or still pin-up?

Additionally, are graphically sexual sprays obscured with photoshopped sandwiches considered adult content? At what breadth does this cross the line from menial to offensive?

In the offensive language section, there is a good example of clarifying statements,

Both the offensive language and offensive spray rules include pro-war exclamations or expressing a positive attitude towards terrorists, dictators or otherwise controversial figures. Keep that stuff out of the servers; it's a video game, not a place to express your controversial political viewpoints.

While not the be all end all, this level of clarity is for the good of the server if it gets into legal trouble, meaning it has legal defense should the worst happen, is only a good thing. It takes zero effort to clarify statements such as that.

Additionally, the admins I spoke with told that that signs were part of the "adult content" banner of protection, but they are not explicitly named as such on the rules set.

Additionally, the term

otherwise inappropriate

Is essentially meaningless as a matter of legal defense. I honestly have absolutely no idea what could be considered under that banner. Furthermore, the mixing of that term with the use of "deemed" means that, to me, Admins have the right to kick for whatever they deem as "inappropriate" be that a genuine offence, or a personal issue they see in a player.

Finally, there are no written explainations to punishments for offenses, and it seems completely up in the air if someone is muted, kicked, banned, or completely ignored. Some written examples would be more than useful in allowing users to deem the response required by admins as valid or invalid.

I understand this all sounds extremely negative, but it's rather stressful, being a 3+ year veteran of Panda Community, to see it still in such a state for enforcement. People often spout racial epithets and get nothing but a temporary mute, porn is excused on the forums as lewds when other admins kick players for having less offensive sprays and signs. I can only hope my bitching leads to at least some addendums.

 

[Magglet]

The rules are not a legal document stop treating it like it is ever going to be. The whole point of the rules being so "opaque" as you referred is that the admins can interpret how they please. It may not be the fairest way but 90% of the time admins are right and the player is just being a cunt.

 

[ThatOneBitch]

Depressing you guys see it like that.

Not my problem I guess. Just sucks to see such an absolute lack of care put into it.

 

[Noirr]

tl;dr i wanna have a pornographic spray/sign but rules say no-no :<

 

[Gold]

Ok, I have read this multiple times over and I still don’t fully understand what you are suggesting. The TL;DR noir provided seems like a shit post more than anything but it still kinda helps me understand what you are trying to convey.

Spoiler: Full version :D

Ok time to begin.

As per my wonderful conversation with some of the staff today, some of the rules, specifically those regarding[Insert rule here] are needlessly opaque and legally indefensible.

We tend to follow certain guidelines when it comes to sprays. If it shows any nudity ei. Boobs, Vaginas, Dicks…. we warn before spray banning them. Nothing opaque about that. Why are you trying to bring in legality in a community server? It seems rather redundant to get sued because you were spray banned. After all, your spray showed nudity.

The term "deemed" as refers to post-awareness application and puts the blame in the post rather than present scene. Those who have not read the rules have the defense of not knowing the rules were stated and can be unjustly banned/punish.

No, they don’t. Even if they aren’t aware of the rules/they have read the rules we always warn before we punish someone so that’s not a valid excuse on why the person should be unpunished.

Again, I heard the weak excuse of "use common sense", but for server rules that doesn't hold water.

Yes, it does? It really isn’t that hard to tell if your spray is allowed or not. If you have to question about whether your spray is allowed or not you can a) ask an admin if it’s alright or b) not put it on. Hence the phrase “use common sense”

I recommend changing it to simply... [Insert edited rule here]

You legit just removed the part where it included signs. For what exactly? Why should the person be safe from the rules just because they have a sign? I have seen crowds of people over a dude with a hentai sign a bunch of times. Why should they be punished? what difference did it really make just because it’s a sign it’s ok?

Additionally, opening the prospect of what is truly deemed "adult content", is up to the discretion of the admins, but considering there is no outward guide into what is considered adult content, there is a legal gray area surrounding said term.

Any nudity, whether it be boob, vaginas, dicks, is strictly forbidden. Also, you know gore and stuff like that. Also, this is a community server. Why are you bringing up legality?

Additionally, are graphically sexual sprays obscured with photoshopped sandwiches considered adult content? At what breadth does this cross the line from menial to offensive?

That’s fine. As long as nothing nudity-wise is showing(look at the response above).

While not the be all end all, this level of clarity is for the good of the server if it gets into legal trouble, meaning it has legal defense should the worst happen, is only a good thing. It takes zero effort to clarify statements such as that.

Refer to what magglet said (look below)

The whole point of the rules being so "opaque" as you referred is that the admins can interpret how they please

Additionally, the admins I spoke with told that that signs were part of the "adult content" banner of protection, but they are not explicitly named as such on the rules set.

but they are? You can see it in your own post. You copy and paste the rule.

c) Inappropriate personal content
Publicly visible content within sprays, signs, or avatars that is deemed sexual, discriminatory, or derogatory in depiction and/or implication, is forbidden.

So idk where you got that they aren’t explicitly said on the rules because it’s right there.

Additionally, the term
“otherwise inappropriate”
Is essentially meaningless as a matter of legal defense. I honestly have absolutely no idea what could be considered under that banner. Furthermore, the mixing of that term with the use of "deemed" means that, to me, Admins have the right to kick for whatever they deem as "inappropriate" be that a genuine offence, or a personal issue they see in a player.”

Again with this legality. Man, you must be a lawyer since you are so obsessed with the law and stuff. You say you have absolutely no idea what could be deemed inappropriate, which is really funny since you talk like you are a graduate of Harvard. {This is where the common sense “excuse” comes into play} If you are ever questioning whether or not something is allowed please refer back to when I last talked about it.

Finally, there are no written explainations to punishments for offenses, and it seems completely up in the air if someone is muted, kicked, banned, or completely ignored. Some written examples would be more than useful in allowing users to deem the response required by admins as valid or invalid.

Every admin is different. You cant expect us to be a clone of one another. We each have our own punishment stacking. If you feel like the admin that has punished you is deemed unfair you are more than happy to appeal it. If it is unfair then it will be lifted and won’t be counted as a punishment. Though if the punishment is deemed fair and you are just complaining about it then sucks

I understand this all sounds extremely negative, but it's rather stressful, being a 3+ year veteran of Panda Community, to see it still in such a state for enforcement. People often spout racial epithets and get nothing but a temporary mute, porn is excused on the forums as lewds when other admins kick players for having less offensive sprays and signs. I can only hope my bitching leads to at least some addendums.

Since you are a 3+ year player of panda (yet you made your forum account yesterday) you should know how we go. We have to be fair for everyone. No matter what they have done.

TL;DR We are going to keep it as it is.

Declined