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Accepted Gag Appeal.

Discussion in 'Archive' started by Jax, Jun 13, 2018.

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  1. Jax

    Jax Donator
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    Steam:
    SourceBans Ban URL: https://bans.panda-community.com/index.php?p=commslist&searchText= STEAM_0:1:121310701&Submit=Search
    Name of your Banned Steam Account: adam.
    Steam ID: STEAM_0:1:121310701
    Date and Time of the Ban: 06-13-18 15:53
    Reason about the Ban: Ghosting
    Admin that Banned you: Magglet
    Why should you receive a unban for the ban / gag / mute:
    Let me explain this from the start briefly, The player @aC` was hale, and a couple of players did the trick of telefragging when the hale teleports, so, I've said over the microphone: "Doing that thing from last map Magglet, eh?"
    Clearly that wasn't ghosting, because that thing could be literally anything.
    Second time, beacon was toggled on Magglet, @aC` saw the beacon from the other side, which is at the spawn.
    20180613161022_1.
    20180613161030_1.
    So then, as a result of the beacon, @aC` saw Magglet's beacon from upstairs, in which he knew Magglet's position.
    Once then, someone said "downstayers" and I just said "stayers?"
    I wouldn't count this as ghosting, as the hale already saw where Magglet stood by the beacon, and I wouldn't have said a word if the hale didn't see anything.
    In case anyone was wondering how I knew where the hale was standing, I was spectating him.
    Even @aC` himself can confirm that he saw Magglet's position by the beacon that was toggled onto him.
     
  2. Stabbin

    Stabbin Gameserver Admin
    Gameserver Admin Donator Deathrun Team Development

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    Steam:
    I was asked to invalidate Jax's application because of this, but when I started digging into the situation I was left in the middle (as I said on his application). In my (and others) opinion(s), a player with an active app/that is a regular shouldn't be ghosting, Jax says it's not ghosting, Magglet said it was. My take on this situation is as follows: Magglet toggled beacon on himself, which is questionable in itself, you can't give away your location then complain when others do it. Does it really matter if anybody says where he is, if hale already saw the beacon through the wall.

    Non the less, this is your 8th gag after already being unbanned from another perm gag. Since your first gags are very old (2015) I've only extended this gag to a week (from the original 4 hours). Though if the punishment is justified the length of the gag is also up for discussion.
     
  3. Magglet

    Magglet Trial Gameserver Admin
    Trial Gameserver Admin Donator

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    Hello there,

    Firstly, just because hale knows my location from a beacon I placed on myself, doesn't take away from the fact that you directly ghosted. You ghosted 2 times over the microphone, the first I let slide cause it was relatively minor and didn't bother me. The second one u let your tongue slip, I directly asked you if you wanted to say that again. Lectured you directly about being an admin applicant, you shouldn't even be close to being considered for a mute/gag, your behaviour should be excellent. Then 20 seconds later, you announce I am downstairs, on a map with only one major downstairs area which is vastly open excluding the one section you highlighted. Regardless of if I beaconed myself for him or not you still ignored my warnings to you over the microphone, which you acknowledged.

    Also announcing that I am doing a trick to a player that watched me successfully do it in the same scenario, to me is 100% ghosting. I have a reputation of doing that trick, and I told you not to say that. You did not say " ""Doing that thing from last map Magglet, eh?" You announced doing your same old trick magglet.
     
  4. Jax

    Jax Donator
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    Steam:
    What I know is that you have gagged me mainly for saying "downstayers?" in which one person had already said it originally and I was just asking for the spelling.
    And just to point this out, I did not ghost two times over the microphone, the first time, yes, I admit it that I may have went a bit too far with that, but the second time I said unintelligible stuff, that wasn't ghosting.

    And also to me, I'm pretty sure that it is perfectly fine to tell a position of a player if the hale already knows where the player is, and additonally, we can tell the hale the position of the last player if the hale is unable to find the last player.

    g) Ghosting
    Communicating game-related information while in team spectator or while being dead in VSH or FF2 to give players an advantage is forbidden. If there is only one (group of) player(s) left alive in VSH or FF2 and they are explicitly waiting for the boss to find them, it is okay to tell the boss where they are to avoid wasting time. This is the only exception to this rule.
     
  5. P N N

    P N N Donator
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    Alright I had been on the server for almost 40 secs and then this happend. I will just throw out my point of view on these 40 secs.

    So I had just joined and the first player I was looking at was Magglet actually. I saw the beacon was on him and that the hale, aC, was looking for him. After what I saw, aC noticed the beacon sound and moved towards it. He was standing right above Magglet, on the roof, looking down on the water and noticed the beacon going through the wall. This is the point where the ghosting happend.
    I don't know if this has any value, but I asked aC right after the gag if he saw Magglet before the ghosting, and yes he did.

    My opinion on this is when you place beacon on yourself, you can't punish people if they ghost. If I had not been a Trial and saw someone put beacon on themselves, I would have thought that the player wanted the hale to find him, and with that also help the hale to find him.

    This also shows that warnings in chat works better then in voice.
     
  6. Magglet

    Magglet Trial Gameserver Admin
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    You directly announced my exact location. The first 2 are not up for discussion, you, first of all, announced my trick. Which is 100% ghosting, ghosting is telling the user on the opposite team something they wouldn't otherwise know. As a dead player. You told the hale I wasn't in the tunnel, directly and then stuttered profusely after I called you out to say it again. I the admin of the server, beaconed myself. I wasn't time wasting my strategy is a passive way of playing, and my location wouldn't have remained hidden for much longer. Which therefore nulls the need for you to ghost, Especially after I directly warned you not to do it.

    Also, the question mark at the end of your downstairs is clearly a materialised method of you trying to bluff your way out by saying it was for spelling. There is, in fact, no "?" after he said downstayers he just did it for the sake of ghosting, same as the other user who received a gag. Don't try and bullshit your way out of a gag maybe if you apologised for directly disobeying my orders I would feel more sympathetic towards you.

    https://gameme.panda-community.com/player_histories/chat/1728572
     
  7. Magglet

    Magglet Trial Gameserver Admin
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    For the sake of my beacon, yes I wanted the hale to have a chance of finding me, the map is large and there are tons of hiding locations, it prevents the round prolonging far too long and me delaying. I would do the same if it wasn't me and wouldn't tolerate ghosting if a user was to announce the location of a player who is beaconed. Adam would have received a punishment from me regardless of if he ghosted me or any other player on the server. I am happy to give warnings out especially when things happen by accident. But 3 times he ignored my warnings.
     
    #7 Magglet, Jun 13, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  8. Jax

    Jax Donator
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    Steam:
    I apologise for disobeying, but I'd like to tell you a few things:
    I hadn't realised that I did not put a question at the end of "downstayers", but then I said "stayers" in which it clearly makes me heading towards the spelling not the ghosting, and to let you know, I have said that when the hale was heading towards you, and he clearly already knew your position before me even saying anything, I have said downstayers and then stayers when he was already heading towards you, in which brings me to the question: Is simply saying the same thing that a player already said with incorrect spelling, and then saying the incorrect spelling part, gives the hale an advantage to your position, while he was already heading towards you and I did not say anything already?
    He has already seen you from the beacon from the other side and he was going to your location, so why would saying "downstayers" get me gagged?
    And yes, I do apologize for not realizing that I put a question mark at the end of "Downstayers", and I also apologize for not properly listening to your warnings, but I personally think that it is not quite fair, hence why I've made the appeal.
     
  9. Magglet

    Magglet Trial Gameserver Admin
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    This isn't an appeal, you have just tried to call me out saying it isn't a valid gag. If it was an appeal there would be an apology and an admittance of guilt. Not just you saying what I have done is bullshit in a nice way.
     
  10. Stabbin

    Stabbin Gameserver Admin
    Gameserver Admin Donator Deathrun Team Development

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    Steam:
    If there is only one (group of) player(s) left alive in VSH or FF2 and they are explicitly waiting for the boss to find them, it is okay to tell the boss where they are to avoid wasting time. This is the only exception to this rule.

    Yeah no, this appeal is accepted.

    Take a knee for the almighty Magglet
     
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