Completed [FF2] Boss change suggestions (quite a few) (1 Viewer)

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Autismo

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Currently certain hales are getting hamstringed harshly (demopan mobility uptime being reduced, rage being nerfed to near unusable levels + losing super duper jump, major crits losing instant teleport on environmental damage which isn't a problem but save that for later) whilst other hales whom I think are still way WAY more powerful than both and require nowhere near as much user input (teleport hales being able to just goomba you after teleing to the max map height whilst having no where as much visual indication compared to super jumps, certain spy hales shitting out 206 swings with an instant hitscan and getting hitscan weapons on rage with long stun durations.)

firstly demopan.
unbalanceable without being overpowered if someone has the bare minimum knowledge of trimping and charging into super jumping.
super jump cooldown to 12 seconds (or 14 seconds).
charge recharge time to 4.45 (4.15 if the super charge cd is of the latter)
10%+ per player hp increase but +10% rage gain needed in order to rage plus 1 second of stun to the rage currently since it's too low
I do not know what the current charge recharge time is but it's close to 7 - 8 seconds with the super jump being at 9 seconds, but demopan should operate on trimping based gameplay instead of the reliance of that of the charge into super jump.

major crits jr
just remove the grappling hook at this point, it's not fun to play against.
every suggestion someone could suggest for this hale would make it overpowered.
giving it a super jump would mean the ability to bomb your enemies with ease and make retreating impossible since a good hale knows how to super jump into a quick weighdown.
giving it the new teleport would just be stupid.
making the hale be able to rocket jump would be thee worst possible choice out of any of these with how it's a begger's bazooka, fly from one corner to the other in a second and weighdown to nuke people, rocket jump in a closed area straight into anyone's face due to the launcher shitting out rockets and any other scenario you could think of.
and from playing this hale I've learnt that all it takes is 3 medics or 4 to shut down a major crits down, you can't pin trolldiers down easily since the rage only provides uber, so all I'm saying is that whenever I'm playing the hale I see 3 or 4 medics and then probably lose whilst other people who pick him get a free round if they're not brain dead.
so basically put, remove grappling hook, pick one of the 3 choices (the rocket jumping one is the most fun) or the better choice: remove the hale entirely because balancing around a close range ranged weapon is annoying.

taming engineer
get rid of the damage reduction on the engineer, there it's fixed, I don't care for biases

spyper
remove him or nerf the cloak into the ground and make the rifle deal normal damage whilst having a LIMITED amount of time to use it I.E 30 seconds, no longer or shorter, no one likes playing against this hale because of how boring and long matches are just by having it on

mimicer
remove the cloak or majorly nerf it.

mlg spy
reduce ammo count on rage for the gun from 3 to 2, reduce the damage by -10%, crits deal minicrits plus a limited amount of time to expend the ammo: 25 seconds, reduce the duration on the matrix life loss and the rage stun by 0.5

zerstorer and human sentry buster
give a stun on rage for the exact amount of time for either of them to explode on rage and increase the sentry buster's health pool by 10%

gentlespy
reduce health per player by -10%, reduce ammo count on rage for the gun from 3 to 2, reduce the damage by -10%, crits deal minicrits plus a limited amount of time to expend the ammo: 25 seconds, same deal with mlg

administrator
reduce the player spawn count for blu on rage from 4 players to 3, 25 seconds to expend ammo on the weapon, crits deal minicrits

easter bunny
rework the rage's weapon from a rapid fire random grenade launcher to just a stock loose cannon that deals minicrits on crits to prevent getting a egg crit boost to nuke anyone from a range, clip is 4, ammo is 4 (or 8), expires after 25 seconds (stock loose cannon attributes are 996 for the weapon id; attributes 466 ; 1 ; 467 ; 1 ; 477 ; 1 ; 103 ; 1.20 plus 869 ; 1 with just a simple arg change for the clip + ammo), also maybe add +25 base movement to the hale

St. Heffe
reduce the lightning per rage from 3 strikes to 2

Mr. Meeseeks
base +5% per player damage needed for rage

other than that, that's it, the rage on weapon duration or ammo may need another plugin, so if not for ammo capacity (bunny) just make the clip 8 instead
 
While I agree with most if not all of these changes, mini-crits instead of crits seems like an overnerf with it already having decreased ammo per rage. Rewarding the ability to headshot with an insta-kill is reasonable, other than that I agree with these changes.
 
I agree about Major Crits, Taming Engi, Spyper, Admin and Meeseeks.

I think Demopan isn't as overpowered after the recent nerfs, he's somewhat fine to play against. The only thing I would add is a cooldown before first use for the shield charge, similiar to what other abilities have.

As for Spyper, I think just making the rifle stay temporarily after rage (around 30 seconds like you said) would be good enough.

As for the other bosses I think they're somewhat fine in their current state, don't mind playing against them.
 
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I made a buff for Demopan's rage again, i just have to wait for Kevin.
For the Emergency Jump/Teleport, I increased the damage requirements as people loved to abuse it on pits that dealt around 500-1000 damage, however, i removed the Teleporter as it's not necessary at all If he has a Grappling Hook.
Current damage requirement for both are between 1.5k - 2k.
For the Point Teleport, it has an option to remove clips from it's weapon, so it wouldn't be a issue as it currently is with the normal one if that's what you meant with "It would be stupid"

Taming Engineer, I somewhat disagree with, yes the damage reduction can lead to a huge clutch, even with 1k health against 15 people, I sadly did win like that before surprisingly lmao.
However, In my opinion it would kill his kit by the fact that his health is quite low, mixed feelings on this.

Spyper, I agree with everything mentioned, boring as hell boss but at this point just remove him honestly, there are better bosses who can take his place.

Mimicer, could need a nerf on his cloak, yeah.

MLG Spy, Stun and Matrix nerf, sure why not. But for his Ambassador, it's worse than Gentlespys, nerfing it's damage output even more would make him even weaker than now, so i'm against nerfing it to deal mini-crits only.

Zerstorer/HSB, instead of a player stun, I can make it slow down people, as the stun would just kill the purpose of Medics being able to save people from the Explosion.

GentleSpy, I see no reason to nerf him to be fair, he's a teleporting boss not a Super Jump boss.

Administrator, nerfing the spawn count AGAIN wouldn't be that nice, considering that the summon has been moved to her rage. We had it on 3 before but it made it quite harder for her, also don't forget AFK minions lmao. (rng moment)

Easter Bunny, maybe less duration on his rage stun..? Though, Easter Bunny's Grenade Launcher already deals mini-crits when it's supposed to crit, just switching it to the melee makes the pills crit again, maybe add the attribute to his melee too? A 400 crit melee swing, lol.
Other than that no changes required honestly.

St. Heffe, hmmm, maybe?

Mr. Meeseeks, I really dont know if it's gonna change anything but we can check it out if it will.
 
I made a buff for Demopan's rage again, i just have to wait for Kevin.
For the Emergency Jump/Teleport, I increased the damage requirements as people loved to abuse it on pits that dealt around 500-1000 damage, however, i removed the Teleporter as it's not necessary at all If he has a Grappling Hook.
Current damage requirement for both are between 1.5k - 2k.
For the Point Teleport, it has an option to remove clips from it's weapon, so it wouldn't be a issue as it currently is with the normal one if that's what you meant with "It would be stupid"

Taming Engineer, I somewhat disagree with, yes the damage reduction can lead to a huge clutch, even with 1k health against 15 people, I sadly did win like that before surprisingly lmao.
However, In my opinion it would kill his kit by the fact that his health is quite low, mixed feelings on this.

Spyper, I agree with everything mentioned, boring as hell boss but at this point just remove him honestly, there are better bosses who can take his place.

Mimicer, could need a nerf on his cloak, yeah.

MLG Spy, Stun and Matrix nerf, sure why not. But for his Ambassador, it's worse than Gentlespys, nerfing it's damage output even more would make him even weaker than now, so i'm against nerfing it to deal mini-crits only.

Zerstorer/HSB, instead of a player stun, I can make it slow down people, as the stun would just kill the purpose of Medics being able to save people from the Explosion.

GentleSpy, I see no reason to nerf him to be fair, he's a teleporting boss not a Super Jump boss.

Administrator, nerfing the spawn count AGAIN wouldn't be that nice, considering that the summon has been moved to her rage. We had it on 3 before but it made it quite harder for her, also don't forget AFK minions lmao. (rng moment)

Easter Bunny, maybe less duration on his rage stun..? Though, Easter Bunny's Grenade Launcher already deals mini-crits when it's supposed to crit, just switching it to the melee makes the pills crit again, maybe add the attribute to his melee too? A 400 crit melee swing, lol.
Other than that no changes required honestly.

St. Heffe, hmmm, maybe?

Mr. Meeseeks, I really dont know if it's gonna change anything but we can check it out if it will.
if that's the case for the point teleport on major crits, the hale would go from strong to ok but only if the grappling hook is retained, I'd keep the grabbling if the clip were to disappear from having only the ability to pin point teleport even if the teleport allows the hale to fall from the sky.
only nerf I would truly advocate for gentlespy is the health per player one, gentle has a lot more health compared to mlgspy (20 - 25% difference?) but other than that it would be okish, I still dislike ranged hitscan weapons to that of projectile ones so if I were to I would get rid of a singular ammo point from the rage in the least.
Easter bunny would definitely need a rage stun reduction since it would allow him to switch to the bottle to get crits from kills quickly since the loose cannon change would allow one to switch weapons, crits to minicrits like you've said for the melee is definite for the changes I've suggested.
Reason for meeseeks is because the rage is really strong, 244 mini crit swings, movement speed bonus, minion spawn, plus the quick fix uber is massive and snowballs with each player killed.
 
only nerf I would truly advocate for gentlespy is the health per player one, gentle has a lot more health compared to mlgspy (20 - 25% difference?)

Reason for meeseeks is because the rage is really strong, 244 mini crit swings, movement speed bonus, minion spawn, plus the quick fix uber is massive and snowballs with each player killed.
Could agree on a health nerf for sure but not too much however.

For Meeseeks mini-crit damage, I believe i can cap it at a certain amount, which would be DMG_ACID if i'm not wrong, so my personal preference gameplay wise would be to cap it at 207 damage.
 
taming engineer
get rid of the damage reduction on the engineer, there it's fixed, I don't care for biases
A better solution would be to reduce the damage reduction itself by a fraction, his whole thing is that he has low HP and thus a damage reduction, simple as that.

spyper
remove him or nerf the cloak into the ground and make the rifle deal normal damage whilst having a LIMITED amount of time to use it I.E 30 seconds, no longer or shorter, no one likes playing against this hale because of how boring and long matches are just by having it on
His whole point is to use the sniper rifle to his advantage, otherwise he is completely weak. Regarding his cloak, I dont see the point of nerfing it since it provides a stealthier maneuverability in contrast to his point teleport which itself gives up his positions with the "scream" audio.
mlg spy
reduce ammo count on rage for the gun from 3 to 2, reduce the damage by -10%, crits deal minicrits plus a limited amount of time to expend the ammo: 25 seconds, reduce the duration on the matrix life loss and the rage stun by 0.5
This is just absurd. His revolver is already garbage and his matrix is fine, no need to lower it, it would be wonderful if it was slightly increased even.
zerstorer and human sentry buster
give a stun on rage for the exact amount of time for either of them to explode on rage and increase the sentry buster's health pool by 10%
That would be straight up broken. The whole point of their current rage is to give players a chance to escape them, by adding stun to their rage half of the server could get killed because most of the players tend to come closer for precision, damage fall-off and melee. As for HSB, just remove him entirely, he is literally a degraded Zer.
gentlespy
reduce health per player by -10%, reduce ammo count on rage for the gun from 3 to 2, reduce the damage by -10%, crits deal minicrits plus a limited amount of time to expend the ammo: 25 seconds, same deal with mlg
He has already been nerfed before. His rage used to teleport him into a player and stun everyone around him whilst giving him uber, so its safe to say that Gentle in his current state is perfectly fine and still a challenging, non-op freak.
administrator
reduce the player spawn count for blu on rage from 4 players to 3, 25 seconds to expend ammo on the weapon, crits deal minicrits
By introducing the player spawn reduction Admin would face an immense decrease in its use. Newbies that have no experience with playing Admin would have an even harder time dealing with REDs, considering the fact that an opportunity to revive an excellent player drops by 25%, furthermore the existence of chances to revive AFK players, which is quite a common occurrence. As for the revolver time, why do you push that agenda throughout a lot of Freaks? That idea in itself holds a great flaw and that is the fact that those Freaks would undoubtedly lose a great percentage of chances of winning against RED team.

St. Heffe
reduce the lightning per rage from 3 strikes to 2
If you think about it, Heffe would turn out quite weak, taking into consideration the fact that he has to use 5% of his rage to reach annoying Trolldiers and Snipers AND even to have a chance against Sentry Nests. His rage/health ratio is for the most part balanced with the current state of having 3 lightnings.


Finally, I think that this post is chaotic and that its missing a lot of poll options.
 
Demopan could perhaps be changed a bit,MLG Spy and Gentlespy are balanced and no reason to be changed.Taming engi I guess is an issue but it's not that bad.Major Crits Jr. is a bit annoying with his grappling hook I do agree with that.All of the other bosses are fine imo.
 
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I don't think major crits jr. in his current state would be playable without the grappling hook. Perhaps make it so he can't grapple onto players, or somehow change his rocket launcher, since rocket jumping with a beggars-like weapon as hale, while also needing to have the rocket launcher loaded to kill players just wouldn't be playable. I mean he already is quite easily owned without grappling to players.
 
not to bump but for easter bunny the attributes for the rage weapon 466 ; 1 ; 467 ; 1 ; 477 ; 1 ; 103 ; 1.20 ; 869 ; 1 may also need to include 280 ; 17 (override_projectile_type; already in the bunny demo config so don't mind this) and 293 ; 65 (kill_eater_score_type_2) in order for it to double donk, the weapon index should also be changed from tf_weapon_grenadelauncher to tf_weapon_cannon.
 
So from reading this thread I'm assuming we are in for the long haul on this one. As we go along I'll update and reset the polls so that every single boss edit suggestion is polled.

Results for demopan: Ubermedic has an update for demopan pending for Kevin. Also poll results are for changes to demopan. Would be best if we go with Uber's edit first to see how demopan fairs afterwards.
Results for major crits jr: Majority is for Give major crits the ability to rocket jump and remove grappling
Results for taming engineer : Too close to call, so I'll have to reset the two most popular votes.

The next poll will include the following bosses:

Taming engineer - 2 options: - don't Nerf taming engineer resistance or Remove taming engineer resistance
Spyper - 4 options: remove boss, Autismo's nerf, kruphixx nerf, don't change anything
Mimicer - 3 options: Remove cloak, Nerf on cloak (needs to be specific on what the nerf is) or don't change

So before I do the next poll, please specify what possible nerf mimicer may receive @UberMedicFully @Autismo . Did note uber said cloak nerf, but by how much percentage? time? whichever is best to show what you both mean by it.

Also next time it would be best to spilt the suggestion up between 3 bosses. If you wish to do that start from mlg spy. If not I can do this all from this thread, it's just each poll vote has a 7 day cooldown before decided. Uber can, if he wishes, put the updates ahead of this suggestion so long as it's been voted for.
 
So from reading this thread I'm assuming we are in for the long haul on this one. As we go along I'll update and reset the polls so that every single boss edit suggestion is polled.

Results for demopan: Ubermedic has an update for demopan pending for Kevin. Also poll results are for changes to demopan. Would be best if we go with Uber's edit first to see how demopan fairs afterwards.
Results for major crits jr: Majority is for Give major crits the ability to rocket jump and remove grappling
Results for taming engineer : Too close to call, so I'll have to reset the two most popular votes.

The next poll will include the following bosses:

Taming engineer - 2 options: - don't Nerf taming engineer resistance or Remove taming engineer resistance
Spyper - 4 options: remove boss, Autismo's nerf, kruphixx nerf, don't change anything
Mimicer - 3 options: Remove cloak, Nerf on cloak (needs to be specific on what the nerf is) or don't change

So before I do the next poll, please specify what possible nerf mimicer may receive @UberMedicFully @Autismo . Did note uber said cloak nerf, but by how much percentage? time? whichever is best to show what you both mean by it.

Also next time it would be best to spilt the suggestion up between 3 bosses. If you wish to do that start from mlg spy. If not I can do this all from this thread, it's just each poll vote has a 7 day cooldown before decided. Uber can, if he wishes, put the updates ahead of this suggestion so long as it's been voted for.
best I could suggest for mimicer is to make the hale use:
cloak consume rate decreased (attribute 83) to 0.5 - invis watch
mult cloak meter regen rate (attribute 35) to 0 - invis watch
add cloak on kill (attribute 158) with a value of 20 (which is 20% instead of the usual 0. 1. for attributes) to the melee (this could also be attributed to spyper entirely).
updates can still be done here since making another thread isn't absolutely necessary, votes would slightly diminish over time but would still be just as good, 3 bosses per polling with the other suggestions/comments is best.
 
Mr. Meeseeks, I really dont know if it's gonna change anything but we can check it out if it will.
just make him crash the server again, that would make him strong enough :> (seriously dont xd)
best I could suggest for mimicer is to make the hale use:
cloak consume rate decreased (attribute 83) to 0.5 - invis watch
mult cloak meter regen rate (attribute 35) to 0 - invis watch
add cloak on kill (attribute 158) with a value of 20 (which is 20% instead of the usual 0. 1. for attributes) to the melee (this could also be attributed to spyper entirely).
updates can still be done here since making another thread isn't absolutely necessary, votes would slightly diminish over time but would still be just as good, 3 bosses per polling with the other suggestions/comments is best.
That is a pretty good idea, vastly reduces delaying and gives them a reason to be agressive to get more cloak
 
About spyper: Kruphixx has let me know about this suggestion: https://www.panda-community.com/thr...n-captain-punch-replacement-for-spyper.30734/ which will pass tomorrow and end up replacing spyper. So no point me making a poll on spyper anymore. Thanks for kruphixx for this point out :ok_hand:
best I could suggest for mimicer is to make the hale use:
cloak consume rate decreased (attribute 83) to 0.5 - invis watch
mult cloak meter regen rate (attribute 35) to 0 - invis watch
add cloak on kill (attribute 158) with a value of 20 (which is 20% instead of the usual 0. 1. for attributes) to the melee (this could also be attributed to spyper entirely).
Cheers for this, it'll do as an example for those voting

So for the new poll:
Taming engineer - 2 options: - don't Nerf taming engineer resistance or Remove taming engineer resistance
Mimicer - 3 options: Remove cloak, Nerf or don't change
mlg spy - 3 options: Nerf (inc mini crits), Nerf (No nerf to minicrits) or don't change

Tagging people who have posted / reacted here so they can vote:
@Autismo @Ham @Kruphixx @UberMedicFully @Macko @Maddox @Loki. @Spam Goose
Last poll did not show who voted so I cannot tag them. If you wish not to be tagged, let me know privately.
 
About Demopan, his change is already live, he's surely somewhat more difficult to play as but he's fine now imo.
His Charge rage usage is still left to do.
 
Some of these nerfs seem a bit unnecessary or even petty. (e.g. St. Heffe lightning nerf from 3 to 2, or MLG Spy's bullets from 3 to 2)
Haven't encountered any issues with the majority of these hales provided/suggested to be nerfed.

Demopan is inherently an anti-fun boss. His mechanic of trimping in combination of jumping around make him not only hard to catch but annoying to fight.
Major Crits as said already by some people in-game/discord requires his Teleport/Hook replaced. A simple solution to this would be a rocket-jump/super jump instead.
Spyper is probably going to be replaced anyway.
Zerstorer requires a buff. Perhaps the one you put forward, maybe someone's got a better idea?
Easter Bunny's rage for the most part feels useless. Giving that a buff should be alright.
Meeseeks, I'm a bit undecided on that. I suppose nerfing him a tiny bit wouldn't hurt.

I haven't had any issues with Mimicer, Gentlespy, MLG Spy, Admin or Heffe. So I have to simply disagree to all suggested nerfs.
 
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Results for 2nd Poll

Taming engineer - The poll vote was spilt between the two results so it's best to leave taming engineer unchanged until the community can agree on a change for this boss.
Mimicer - Winning vote is don't change.
MLG SPY - Winning vote is don't change.

3rd Polls choices :

zerstorer and human sentry buster - Austimo suggested edit, Uber's suggested edit, Don't change (3)
Austismo's suggested edit - give a stun on rage for the exact amount of time for either of them to explode on rage and increase the sentry buster's health pool by 10%
Uber's suggested edit - instead of a player stun, I can make it slow down people, as the stun would just kill the purpose of Medics being able to save people from the Explosion.
gentlespy - Nerf gentlespy or don't change (2)
administrator - Edit administrator or don't change (2)
easter bunny - Edit easter bunny or don't change (2)

Tagging time based off who voted in 2nd poll:

@UberMedicFully @Macko @Manvid @Ham @Kruphixx @Maddox @Otis The Guy @Autismo @Amigo @ToastUnderABox
 
Final poll results for 4th poll:

No changes to St Heffe, changes for Mr . Meeseeks wanted from original post

So all results are posted within this thread for @UberMedicFully to do whenever he has the time to. If there is any issues with any of the updates requested here, let me know so I can update the thread or open it for future discussion.
 
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