Cheating in JB (1 Viewer)

[Doge Loaf]

So, I would like people's opinion on this, ever since husky added the new rules, which were taken down, people have started thinking that cheating is ok unless the warden says so, because that was a rule that was added for a short time. The rules honestly need to be fixed, and we really need to add some rules about death requests, but I think cheating should not be put in, and here's my case.

I think cheating in general is just dumb, the whole point of playing a minigame is to attempt to kill off reds so that one person can get lr. Letting people just go to the end takes absolutely no risk, and is unfair to the people that actually play the game. Imagine if 2 people cheated on every single game, eventually the people that actually play the games would die, and nobody would get lr, unless the warden said no cheating, which is annoying to say every single round, kind of like "don't hit baiters" and "no detours or delays" on other servers, which we have just put in the rules to avoid the problem. I also think that it breaks at least two rules with the exception of games with a safe road, like the water of climb. First of all, it breaks the detours and delays rule. Let's say the warden decides to have them play obby on ml_castle. The warden says, "go to the start of obby" and all the reds go there. When the warden says to start, the closest way to start would be to go into obby the regular way, and if they went to the finish, they would be taking the longer path to start obby, and you would literally be leaving the game, because the start is still part of obby. The other thing I think cheating breaks, is nitpicking. If you go to the start of a game, and the warden says start, the first thing that comes to mind, is to play the game, not go directly to the finish. Kind of like how when the warden says go to the yellow line, people will kill you, if you go to the line, you are supposed to stay on the line, and it should be the same with minigames. It's heavily implied to play the game when the warden says start, and it's very annoying when people don't, after all, it is called cheating.

Tell me if I missed anything, and feel free to complain in the comments or to try to change my mind.

 

[Semicolon Backslash]

This basically sums up the against cheating while I am for this would be nice to see a counter argument to this.

 

[Doge Loaf]

This basically sums up the against cheating while I am for this would be nice to see a counter argument to this.

I'm just happy that I finally made this, it really needs to be decided. Also there are people like husky who I bet didn't even read the post and just voted no because he has a grudge against me.

 

[Doge Loaf]

btw, like I said, if you're going to dislike the post or vote no, I would really like it if you would post why you disagree so you can try to change my mind

 

[Eight]

I don't regularly play Panda Jailbreak, however I have played a lot of Jailbreak over the years so I'd like to give my two cents and see what others have to think. Plus I think this could be a fun discussion.

In my opinion, cheating is up to the warden, however I don't think it's something that always applies when REDs are ordered to do minigames. Let's say warden orders REDs to start obby and to go through it. If he's specifically saying they must go through it, there's no room to cheat the game really. However, if he says start obby, you only need to start obby, you could start it then go around to the finish.

Letting people just go to the end takes absolutely no risk, and is unfair to the people that actually play the game. Imagine if 2 people cheated on every single game, eventually the people that actually play the games would die, and nobody would get lr, unless the warden said no cheating

Well that's not really unfair to anyone, the warden's orders apply to everyone equally. If people are cheating and it's not rebelling according to the warden's orders, then others can.

Let's say the warden decides to have them play obby on ml_castle. The warden says, "go to the start of obby" and all the reds go there. When the warden says to start, the closest way to start would be to go into obby the regular way, and if they went to the finish, they would be taking the longer path to start obby, and you would literally be leaving the game, because the start is still part of obby.

Well if you don't enter obby, you aren't starting it. If you do enter obby, you are starting it. Again I don't think it's right to just do whatever and pass it off as cheating, only if you are technically following warden's orders. For the no detours/delays argument, in my eyes if warden doesn't specify what routes to take as to allow for reds to cheat (as I said above), there is no detours they are taking. You could also argue on some maps cheating is actually quicker for completing obstacle courses, which means it wouldn't be delaying.

The other thing I think cheating breaks, is nitpicking. If you go to the start of a game, and the warden says start, the first thing that comes to mind, is to play the game, not go directly to the finish. Kind of like how when the warden says go to the yellow line, people will kill you, if you go to the line, you are supposed to stay on the line, and it should be the same with minigames. It's heavily implied to play the game when the warden says start, and it's very annoying when people don't, after all, it is called cheating.

Although I personally don't agree with this rule, if there is one that is to follow orders as they are generally/usually meant to be followed (that's how I'm seeing this no nitpicking rule at least), cheating could fall under it.

 

[Doge Loaf]

Thank you for your points, I really appreciate that somebody is taking the time to start a discussion. On the first part, what I mean by unfair is that people who cheat, and people who actually play the game, have different chance of dying, the people who cheat only have to worry about being freekilled, while the people who play the game also have to worry about traps and such. Like I said, jailbreak is a gamemode where the reds compete in minigames and such to win lr. If everybody was able to cheat and did cheat, then minigames like obby would be useless unless the warden said no cheating, which is really annoying to have to say, because nobody would die.

Second point, when a warden tells somebody to play a game that does not require blu activation, they generally say go to the start of _____ and don't start, or go to the start of _____ and start at arrival, in which case the quickest route (no delays) would be to start at the start. If the warden does not specify the route to take, and he just says, go to _____, most people generally go to the start of the game. Also, except for climb, where you can cheat by going through the water, which I don't not have a problem with because to me it doesn't break any rules, (but is still really annoying,) I don't know of any game where getting into the finish would be a faster path to get into the game than the start, unless you are talking about a small exception where the warden says get to _____, and the finish is closer than the start from the place where the order was given, but I think that still falls under nitpicking.

Third point, I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me or disagreeing, but I'm still going to explain a bit more. Nitpicking to me, is basically common sense, I already said this before, but if you are told to go to the yellow line, people know to stay on the line, they don't just hop onto the yellow line and then run off to do what they want. If you are told to start a minigame, you know that the warden's purpose was to have you play the game, and it is nitpicking to "start" the game by getting in, and then leaving. I don't know what your problem with nitpicking is, but I think it was put in to make the game go smoother, so as to not have every single round be a long list of rules and specific orders.

Again, thank you for your response, and tell me if you think any of my points are irrational or if I missed something.

 

[Eight]

Thank you for your points, I really appreciate that somebody is taking the time to start a discussion. On the first part, what I mean by unfair is that people who cheat, and people who actually play the game, have different chance of dying, the people who cheat only have to worry about being freekilled, while the people who play the game also have to worry about traps and such. Like I said, jailbreak is a gamemode where the reds compete in minigames and such to win lr. If everybody was able to cheat and did cheat, then minigames like obby would be useless unless the warden said no cheating, which is really annoying to have to say, because nobody would die.

Yes but it's not unfair really, everyone is on an equal playing field in regards to this and are just making different decisions, with both having different dangers. If you purposefully choose the choice that is going to be more difficult to you than one that is safer, that is just your decision, saying it's unfair implies favoritism to me, which I don't believe this is. I also don't find it particularly annoying to say "no cheating" for mini-games? I mean this could just be me, but it's the warden's job to order REDs anyway.

Second point, when a warden tells somebody to play a game that does not require blu activation, they generally say go to the start of _____ and don't start, or go to the start of _____ and start at arrival, in which case the quickest route (no delays) would be to start at the start. If the warden does not specify the route to take, and he just says, go to _____, most people generally go to the start of the game. Also, except for climb, where you can cheat by going through the water, which I don't not have a problem with because to me it doesn't break any rules, (but is still really annoying,) I don't know of any game where getting into the finish would be a faster path to get into the game than the start, unless you are talking about a small exception where the warden says get to _____, and the finish is closer than the start from the place where the order was given, but I think that still falls under nitpicking.

Well again if people aren't going to the start when warden says go there, that's just not following the orders. Cheating as I see it is taking advantage of the warden's orders and following them in a way he generally doesn't intend you to, not just blatantly rebelling. When I said it wouldn't be detouring or delaying to cheat, I didn't mean going to the start really, I mean doing the obstacle course, and that's when I assume most people "cheat" and where this issue is arising. If you are following orders, however warden didn't specify a route to follow these orders in thereby it's your choice, then you can't detour as there's no main route. Also, take Jb Minecraft for instance, going around the obby to the end is far faster than going through it, so I wouldn't consider delaying there either.

Third point, I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me or disagreeing, but I'm still going to explain a bit more. Nitpicking to me, is basically common sense, I already said this before, but if you are told to go to the yellow line, people know to stay on the line, they don't just hop onto the yellow line and then run off to do what they want. If you are told to start a minigame, you know that the warden's purpose was to have you play the game, and it is nitpicking to "start" the game by getting in, and then leaving. I don't know what your problem with nitpicking is, but I think it was put in to make the game go smoother, so as to not have every single round be a long list of rules and specific orders.

Well generally the REDs must be following the previous warden's orders if not told otherwise to do anything else, not sure if that's different here but that's what I've known on most Jailbreak servers. So, if you are ordered to go to the yellow line and they do that then just go do whatever, well that's just rebelling, not really comparable to cheating since they're disobeying orders. As for your other example, well you could argue that and this is where I was agreeing with you in that I suppose, even though I wouldn't agree on this nitpicking rule. If you want me to clarify why I dislike it, well in my eyes it's very open and left to interpretation, and also goes against the warden's responsibility of needing to order reds. However, I don't want to derail the thread talking about that rule, but yeah that's why. I will say though I'm not an expert on the JB rules here, though when I had a look at the rule it didn't seem to have specific parameters and was very open-ended.

 

[Semicolon Backslash]

Saying no cheating is similar “no detours or delays” they are both quality of life changes for blue because lets face it in a week or two everyone is going to be used to say no cheating so is it really going to be worth it in the long run. Just to take advantage of newer wardens.



Inb4 people start asking “define ways to cheat”

 

[Doge Loaf]

um, semi, I honestly don't know what you are saying

 

[Doge Loaf]

Replying to █ 8 █ にゃ」 though, there is a bit of unfairness to it. Although it is their decision to play the game or not if cheating is allowed, if the warden says, "start ____ first to finish gets lr," then the cheaters would get lr and it is more of a race based on reaction time to the order and class speed instead of a game that requires skill. Also, the reason it is annoying, at least to me, is if, in a game like climb where I don't think cheating technically contradicts the rules, is when somebody starts to cheat, and I have to tell them to go back to the start while they complain that I never said no cheating. With the detours and delays, you keep saying that it's not a detour if the warden does not specify the path from what I can tell, but detours and delays means that if he does not specify the path, then you take the quickest way to the place he is telling you to go. You said that if you go to the end when the warden said go to the start, that it would be breaking the rules, but if the warden says go to the start, and then he says start, do you think that it's ok to (counting the start as part of the game) directly leave the game and go around the game to the end? Because that is what kind of cheating I am talking about, and to me, it is disobeying orders. By the way, the minecraft obby you are talking about, that would still involve leaving the game, walking around the wall and not playing the game, also, the finish of that obby is outside the game, it pushes you out, so you would end up just leaving the game and not even getting into the game at all. Last thing, based on your definition of cheating,

Cheating as I see it is taking advantage of the warden's orders and following them in a way he generally doesn't intend you to

the definition of nitpicking according to google, which I agree with, "directly counters that looking for small or unimportant errors or faults, especially in order to criticize unnecessarily." directly counters that. If the warden is pretty clear on what he wants you to do, in this case, "start obby" meaning in the warden's mind, "go to the start and go through the game," start obby is a shorter way to say it, that everybody understands.

 

[Semicolon Backslash]

um, semi, I honestly don't know what you are saying

No cheating and no detours or delays are both quality of life things.

 

[Doge Loaf]

well, like we don't have to say no detours or delays, and we don't have to say don't hit baiters, we should not have to say no cheating, I'm saying that the rules imply no cheating