Declined Allow hitting baiters [Jailbreak] (1 Viewer)

[B.J. Blazkowicz]

Most other Jailbreak servers I've played on allowed for reds to hit, if not chase, BLU baiters. I think this would be a good idea for this server, as there is otherwise no punishment for baiters. Now, such a rule would allow reds to hit baiters, and if we allow them to chase baiters, only for 5 seconds before the reds have to go back to what they were ordered to do.

 

[Valen]

no lol

 

[Random Coffee Table]

People who bait repeatedly get teambanned, that is the punishment for baiting. This rule adjustment is pointless.

 

[vinny]

just cause other servers have it doesn't mean panda needs it, the server is fine the way it is now

 

[Chae]

The whole point of the rule is that the guards on blue team shouldn't be baiting ( which includes being in the melee range of reds so that they are able to be hit and thus cause the red(s) to be KoS that hit them if they did). Reds aren't allowed to chase baiters same with following kill orders ( for ex: kill [Insert Blue Guard's Name] for baiting) that'll just cause them to be KoS anyways since they would have a rebeller status and hence rebelling they couldn't be pardoned for hitting baiters and just getting back into a group of prisoners.

Generally if you ask a guard on blue to stop baiting or being in the melee range of reds they'll listen, in those cases that they don't and repeatedly bait ( especially if it's on purpose) and are warned then that's were a report can be filed on them or an admin called on them to correct the fact that they are baiting ( if an admin isn't already on the server of course and they got warned multiple times already) and doesn't end up getting a teamban for it. It's pretty much a check and balance, blues shouldn't be baiting to begin with and if they are they are breaking a rule of being on blue team and can be teamban for that reason, if a red does end up hitting them they are rebelling even if it's the blue's fault for being in their melee range since they don't have to swing their weapon.

 

[Xergon]

I say yes, because the punishment of dying to a spy or getting random critted is a good enough punishment to not bait.

although with how fucking stupid blue members are, I can see one of them mfk'ing with a rocket trying to kill a red thinking they're rebelling.

so... yes but i see why people vote no

 

[TRGGB2]

Everything I was going to say was mentioned by RCT and Chae but I will add on.

Most other Jailbreak servers I've played on allowed for reds to hit, if not chase, BLU baiters. I think this would be a good idea for this server, as there is otherwise no punishment for baiters.

Those jailbreak servers mostly have the rule of pardoning rebellers. Panda doesn't allow pardoning rebellers. If you just allow hitting baiters it goes up against of "Panda doesn't allow pardoning rebellers." since attacking a blue will make you a rebeller.

Another point I would like to mention is that it is just going to make a confusing mess. For instance if a red hits a baiter but the other guard doesn't notice he was hitting a baiter, 99% of the time the guard is gonna shoot the guy dead. This will just lead to some arguments in chat saying "He freekilled" "He hit a baiter so freekill!". This will bring confusion to the guard and he will try to justify that he killed him because he was rebelling.

 

[Xergon]

has there been a suggestion to p[ardon reds who hit a guard accidentally who forcebaited? or would that be too confusing to do

 

[Duck Dodgers (Matt)]

Nah

 

[Vecomti]

although with how fucking stupid blue members are, I can see one of them mfk'ing with a rocket trying to kill a red thinking they're rebelling.

That is what will happen when you give BLUs crit for no reason yes : )

 

[iamhuman]

Hello, long time jb player of many communities, with some feedback and opinions that may serve a better case than what was given in the original post of the thread.

So yes, this is indeed the only server community that doesn't allow reds to hit baiters. The convenience that comes with this is that guards will always know who is KOS by their rebel status. It's a great way to make sure there isn't any confusion on who is KOS because rebel status always means they should die.

The possible downsides which I've witnessed from this restriction falls in line with the general autonomy of the server, and the ability to function at it's best without staff members present. It is very well known that we have an active community of Jailbreak staff members, but for times that staff members are not present, some guards will continue to bait without being punished. If reds were able to hit baiters, this wouldn't be as much of an issue because reds can just kill them for being too close.

Another issue of baiting I have is when they walk inside of a minigame, and can't get out due to the geometry of the map (either pulling them in and not letting them out, closed doors, etc.). If the blue refuses to slay, they can possibly interfere with the game and cause reds to be unfairly killed, or killed for trying to get rid of the baiter who refuses to slay.

tldr
Being the only server that doesn't allow reds to hit baiters, it means the rebel status does exactly what it's intended purpose is: to find out who is rebelling.
But because of that, baiters can more easily get away with baiting when admins aren't present because reds can't punish baiters by hitting them without being killed for rebelling.

 

[moonsic]

On the CSGO Jailbreak server I play, prisoners who hit/kill guards via melee turn purple (their model gets colored) and prisoners who hit/kill guards with actual weapons turn red. Idk if this works on tf2 tho...

 

[Bananawastaken]

This server encourages baiting BECAUSE reds aren't allowed to hit blues.
Like this is literally a fact, anyone who's played jb here knows baiting constantly happens and the threat of a teamban does nothing to stop it.
If you honestly don't want people to bait, allow reds to hit them.
No, it isn't a pointless change because being killed by reds is a way better motivator than the potential admin slapping a teamban, considering getting killed by reds would happen way moree (and would entice people to learn better) than a dumb teamban if someone bothers to even report them, or if there's even an admin on.

 

[Gold]

If you honestly don't want people to bait, allow reds to hit them.

Arguments will happen about whether or not someone was baiting or not and if the red was freekilled or not if allowing to hit baiters was added. As a JB admin who has to deal with arguments everyday id rather not have to handle another one that can be c

No, it isn't a pointless change because being killed by reds is a way better motivator than the potential admin slapping a teamban,

yes, it is a pointless change because being teambanned is a WAYYYYY better motivator than anything a red can do.

considering getting killed by reds would happen way moree (and would entice people to learn better) than a dumb teamban if someone bothers to even report them, or if there's even an admin on.

"then a dumb teamban" lmao what. Not every teamban someone gets is dumb. It seems like you still have some issues with the teamban you got.

tldr

Being the only server that doesn't allow reds to hit baiters, it means the rebel status does exactly what it's intended purpose is: to find out who is rebelling.
But because of that, baiters can more easily get away with baiting when admins aren't present because reds can't punish baiters by hitting them without being killed for rebelling.

While it is true that baiters can get away with baiting when admins aren't on but to be fair a shit ton of rule-breaking happens when an admin isn't on. You can't play the card "but so much baiting happens when admins aren't on!!!" when so much other stuff happens and I don't see anything being done. (Excluding reports).

Maybe try calling on them next time since atm most of the jailbreak team is pretty active and can handle calls. Or if they don't come on to handle the call report them!

 

[Semicolon Backslash]

Then why do people constantly bait if being teambanned is sooo scary, more than other communities that allow baiting. The average player in the moment cares about not dying, not a teamban. Being killed by reds happens way more and is way more important for people in the moment compared to the possibility of being teambanned.

That's just a con that's easily outweighed by the pros.

The ONLY consequence being a teamban is dumb, teambans don't teach people nearly as well as getting killed, you should try actually lowering the amount of teambans being given. Which leads on to my next issue.

You shouldn't be finding excuses to dish out teambans, prevention is much better than actually getting punished.
But I'm talking when a member of staff permanently muted someone for "some distortions" so I'm not surprised you're so eager to rely on teambans rather than actually teach them with a fun and interesting mechanic.

Difference is baiting can actually be punished by reds of all people, meaning you can do something when staff aren't on, not even mentioning the other great positives it brings into jailbreak. So yeah, you can play that card considering a variable outside of admins come into play. Baiting isn't exactly the worst offence so its perfect for reds to punish them.

Yo my dude that's crazy but I'd rather deal with a couple of baiters than having to play Sherlock Holmes every time a red rebels.

 

[Bananawastaken]

y dude that's crazy but I'd rather deal with a couple of baiters than having to play Sherlock Holmes every time a red rebels.

You know I know that predicament, its not that bad ? (kinda)

 

[Xergon]

You know I know that predicament, its not that bad ? (kinda)

that was such a shit joke it made me change my vote from yes to no

 

[Ian]

This is a hard to enforce rule. Just stick with what it has been and just report baiters, since you hate them that much. If I can make a report in less than a minute with some well placed bookmarks, so can you.

 

[iamhuman]

While it is true that baiters can get away with baiting when admins aren't on but to be fair a shit ton of rule-breaking happens when an admin isn't on. You can't play the card "but so much baiting happens when admins aren't on!!!" when so much other stuff happens and I don't see anything being done. (Excluding reports).

Maybe try calling on them next time since atm most of the jailbreak team is pretty active and can handle calls. Or if they don't come on to handle the call report them!

You see, I wasn't playing that "card," nor did I ever bring up the point that this one rule change will fix everything wrong with jailbreak when staff aren't present. I was simply stating the benefits to the restriction being removed. Not to mention, you didn't even bring up a counter argument. You might as well just said "call an admin if they bait and thats the end of it." Everyone has said that by now, and it's completely pointless to continue saying it because it no longer serves anything useful to the point of debate.

The purpose of my post was to better explain the point that the original poster of the thread was trying to make, or atleast to better support their argument.

 

[Random Coffee Table]

You see, I wasn't playing that "card," nor did I ever bring up the point that this one rule change will fix everything wrong with jailbreak when staff aren't present. I was simply stating the benefits to the restriction being removed. Not to mention, you didn't even bring up a counter argument. You might as well just said "call an admin if they bait and thats the end of it." Everyone has said that by now, and it's completely pointless to continue saying it because it no longer serves anything useful to the point of debate.

The purpose of my post was to better explain the point that the original poster of the thread was trying to make, or atleast to better support their argument.

Strawman

It was never implied that it would fix everything anywhere in either statement. Gold made an argument against adding the rule because it won't change much and reporting is more productive than whacking blues getting too close. Nor did gold say "call an admin if they bait and that's the end of it" because he literally said if we can't get on, just report it and it'll go through a little later. You forced an argument that wasn't made because it is easier to rebut.

"baiters can more easily get away with baiting when admins aren't present because reds can't punish baiters by hitting them without being killed for rebelling." Means that baiting will happen and go unpunished, meaning that baiters will bait more and thus increase the amount of baiting that happens. That's the logical conclusion of the argument, it's pointless to say you didn't make the argument when you did.

I get where you're coming from and it might improve gameplay when we aren't on, but I don't think the added confusion will be worth it. It is a huge change in the ethos of the server and would create confusion for a while even for admins on how we track the game, rebellers, and baiters. As it is, one of the things that differentiates Panda from other servers (outside of crits) is the clarity around rebelling and not hitting baiters helps with that.