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Pending Advertising cheats - the thread

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Zeprus, Nov 14, 2017.

  1. Zeprus

    Zeprus Well-Known Member

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    Steam:
    Because of the recent ban appeal I think this should be reconsidered.
    The rule in question is 2 c.
    There is one main problem I see with this rule consisting of two open questions:

    1) What is considered advertising?

    2) What punishment should follow advertising?

    As for 1)
    As seen in the recent ban appeal, some people consider repeating slogans as advertising. Even if the product is not mentioned in any other way or even the current topic. I do not believe that this qualifies as advertisement. It doesn't list any positive traits of the product or speaks to any person in particular, it's like a dumb joke or meme.

    As for 2)
    The punishments for this rule should be fairly obvious, a simple communication block should do the trick.
    For some reason however advertising cheating software is seen as more harmful and punished with a permanent ban. This in my opinion is a major exaggeration seeing how using the product i.e. cheating on the server only ruins the fun for however long the cheater decides to do it.
    Comparable advertisements, for example those of gambling websites, which actually enable underage users to gamble are seen as not nearly as harmful for some reason. Even though the damage caused by those sides is significantly higher than that of cheating sides.

    Other admins however, or ex-admins, did not permanently ban for advertising cheating websites.
    This rules is a mess and needs some thought, it should not be up to the admin to decide between a permanent ban and a temporary communication block. That difference is simply way too huge.
     
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  2. Zushikikato Wolfeh

    Zushikikato Wolfeh Gameserver Admin
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    Big reason between advertising a diffirent community, YouTube channel,steamgroup, ect.... wich are "mostly" harmless then a website that promotes server ruining mechanics, Using hacks or advertising them should be a perma in my opinion. Idk if @Kevin@Kevin wants a word on this to settle everything?
     
  3. Le Captain Pootis

    Le Captain Pootis Trial Gameserver Admin
    Trial Gameserver Admin Donator

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    Steam:
    The rule should be written more specific, regarding punishments and overall handling of situations like we've just seen. However, I disagree with you on the "A simple communication block should do the trick" because advertising hacks is an open and big "fuck you" to the community. Complete disregard towards the rules, the players and administrators playing here. It should come as no surprise to anyone that advertising is strictly forbidden.

    If you don't give two fucks about the rules, and how what you're saying could impact other players (Meaning that if they advertise, people could start downloading and using hacks although we'll catch them eventually), you should not be playing here in the first place.

    But I do agree with you that there has to be a more in-debth explanation of what the whole "advertising" thing means, and the appropriate punishments.
     
    #3 Le Captain Pootis, Nov 14, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
  4. Zeprus

    Zeprus Well-Known Member

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    Steam:
    There clearly is a huge difference, yes. And in my post I compared it to advertising gambling websites which are similarly if not more harmful. I also agree with the permanent punishment however it should not be without a warning and it should not be a ban but instead a communication block in my opinion.

    A simple communication block should be the solution for general advertising, I think harmful advertising should be a permanent communication block as stated above.

    A ban however is in no way the correct punishment as advertising is breaking the communication rules, not the rules of play. Should it be in form of e.g. a spray I might consider a ban but at the same time it's possible to sprayban them iirc.
     
  5. Magglet

    Magglet Donator
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    I disagree with you here. I do agree there needs to be more clarifiction but I do not agree that a mute/gag would do enough. Advertising hacks like said prior is basically just attempting to invite hackers onto our community. It should be a ban just to act as a safeguard for our players.
     
  6. Travis

    Travis Trial Gameserver Admin
    Trial Gameserver Admin

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    Steam:
    I get what you mean, But if they got a gag/mute. Then the advertisments would stop. On the other hand, if they are actually using the cheats/hacks they are advertising then yes a ban would be needed. It all depends on if they are being edgy or actually advertising.
     
  7. Husky

    Husky Well-Known Member

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    As Travis said, what could a ban accomplish that a silence won't?
    Not sure if that is what you meant but if they're actually cheating on top of the advertisement ofc they will get permanently banned. However even if they are seriously advertising it, but not using it, I believe a silence should still be the proper punishment.

    Posting on behalf of @Zeprus@Zeprus since he can't comment for some reason..

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Travis

    Travis Trial Gameserver Admin
    Trial Gameserver Admin

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    Steam:
    Yes, A silence would be needed, That's what I meant. If they are advertising, issue a gag/mute. If they are actually using what they are advertising, a ban is needed. Only ban them if they are advertising a hack/cheat. If it is some website they use then a ban would be harsh. Just a temporary gag/mute to show them it isn't allowed.
     
  9. Superbloxi

    Superbloxi New Member

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    Steam:
    Good evening all,

    I would like to thank everyone who has taken part in this forum for helping to change the vague rules regarding “advertising cheating sites” so that other players will not fall victim to them, as I have.

    I would like to give additional thanks to @Zeprus@Zeprus for being one of the first to respond to the original ban appeal and for being the one who took upon him/herself to begin the “Advertising Cheats – the thread”.

    From what I have read, it seems to be generally accepted that “advertising cheating sites” should result in a mute, and if the user then proceeds to use the cheat, should receive a ban.

    However, one thing that is yet to be cleared up is what is to be considered “advertising cheating sites”. Is mentioning a bind considered “advertising cheating sites”, or giving entire links to cheating websites should be considered “advertising cheating sites” or something along those lines.

    I hope for a quick resolve, and for the rules to be made more explicit to prevent others from falling into the trap of unclear rules.

    Thanks and I hope that this thread will indeed make this be the community with the best servers.

    Superbloxi
     
  10. EvoWarrior5

    EvoWarrior5 Well-Known Member
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    Steam:
    Genuine advertising of any cheat - harsh punishment.
    Memes - discouraged depending on the type.

    Specifics:

    "Get good, get LMAOBOX" - just a meme, generally. Could be considered as making people who are unaware of LMAOBOX aware of it, which can be seen as a problem. Still not really advertising; it doesn't even say what "lmaobox" is. Idc if the community ends up making this sentence punishable or not; if you do, make it a light/medium one, but should always be warned for first.

    "lmaobox dot com - best free TF2 hack!" - might be seen as a meme, but it (1) includes a link (in the proper version), and (2) is worded so that it makes clear to people just exactly what it is. It's very reasonable to ask players not to do it. Again, a warning is always in order (provided that the player doesn't do it in all-caps and then a hundred times, but if that's the case you're already punishing them for spam and overuse of caps anyways). Light/medium punishment if they proceed.

    Whether the punishment should be gag/mute or ban shouldn't even be up for debate. The only communications-related offences that might possibly be banned for are those which are so horrid that certain people may find discomfort in the very presence of the offender on the server. Those are few, and this isn't one of them.
     
  11. Superbloxi

    Superbloxi New Member

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    Steam:
    Good afternoon all,

    Yesterday, @EvoWarrior5@EvoWarrior5 responded with a set of new rules that have been put forth to help to prevent this entire situation from occurring again.

    As @Zushikikato Wolfeh@Zushikikato Wolfeh stated last night that only @Kevin@Kevin can implement new rules, I would like to kindly ask if @Kevin@Kevin could take a look at the proposed rules.

    The current state of the rules are leading to confusion amongst players, and leaves the admins in a peculiar position on what consequences to apply, as implied from @Zushikikato Wolfeh@Zushikikato Wolfeh.

    It would prevent this incident from occurring again and make this a healthier community.

    Once again, I would like to thank everyone for their support throughout the last few weeks, and I hope that this thread will result in making the Panda-Community an even better place to enjoy and spend time in playing.

    If @Kevin@Kevin responds, I would like to say thanks @Kevin@Kevin for spending your time on dealing with this situation.

    Looking forward to a stronger community, Superbloxi

    PS: I have provided a large screenshot of the shoutbox from last night if needed.
    Shoutbox.