Admin disrespect (1 Viewer)

[MercyOnly]

I've had something on my mind when scrolling through SourceBan and ban appeals - admin disrespect.

For some god damn reason, admin disrespect is treated way differently than insulting ( which it usually is, let's be honest) and the punishment is way more harsh than a simple 30/60 minute mute as it usually goes.

I believe all punishments should be made on equal ground. When a player gets insulted, admins, of course, step in on the player's behalf and if worthy of an actual punishment, do get gagged/muted. However, when a player insults an admin, some actually become overzealous enough to treat it as a capital offence and ban the player.

Could the whole admin disrespect be removed as a thing in general as treating it differently than a simple case of insulting another player is ludicrous?

 

[Hellboy]

I don't know if you're referring to my ban, today, since it's the 2nd most recent ban for disrespecting and insulting an admin.
He disrespected not only players but also me, and in general had a rather inappropriate choice of language, as he started insulting me with homophobic insults.

And I usually gag players who insult other players, also admins, but since he were insulting with homophobic insults, I found it appropriate to ban him for two hours.

It might sound like I'm going in defend mode, but I felt like you were specifically referring to my ban, or Clic Clic's ban, however I cannot speak on his ways.


Anyways, going back to what your suggestion really is about;
I think we should keep it as it is. Insulting players is not okay, but lacking respect to the people who volunterely spends his/hers time, trying to keep the server on a mature level, is worse if you ask me.

I might be convinced otherwise, but that's my opinion at this moment.

 

[Madact]

https://bans.panda-community.com/index.php?p=commslist&advSearch=insulting&advType=reason
https://bans.panda-community.com/index.php?p=commslist&advSearch=admin disrespect&advType=reason

Insulting Reason Average = 1 1/2 Hours
Admin Disrespect Reason Average = 5 1/2 Hours

Interesting thing is that a previous admin did high amounts of punishment time on admin disrespect. Mostly up to 2-3 days, which took up most of the average calculation.
Keep in mind though, that there's not a lot of admin disrespect reasons disturbed recently as much as the insulting one. So Admin disrespect is outdated due to not many being dished out as it is.

But with these figures Hawwis does have a point.
But would admin disrespect deserve a more lengthy punishment? Maybe because it's also insulting the community as the admin is acting with the best of the community?

Thoughts people, discussion <3

 

[MercyOnly]

It wasn't directed at you nor was I referring to your ban, although I did see it.

I'm talking from past experience here. I've seen admins punish for it and it's not exactly pretty compared to what you'd get if you'd insult another player instead of an admin.

Just make it so Admin Disrespect is the same as insulting.

You knew you were going to get shit like this when you applied for admin - volunteer or not, all of us get insulted and just because you spend a few more seconds than the average player writing "/ban <name> 1440 Admin disrespect" shouldn't make you any different.

 

[Hellboy]

Sure, getting disrespected is basically a part of being on the internet, however as Madact said, I believe insulting an admin who presents the best of the community, is disrespecting the whole community, and people need to show some respect to the community they're playing on, although that rarely happens.

But eh, I don't know if 1 day is too long or not, but I still stick to my opinion, about insulting the admins gives a longer punishment.

 

[Kevin]

I've had something on my mind when scrolling through SourceBan and ban appeals - admin disrespect.

For some god damn reason, admin disrespect is treated way differently than insulting ( which it usually is, let's be honest) and the punishment is way more harsh than a simple 30/60 minute mute as it usually goes.

I believe all punishments should be made on equal ground. When a player gets insulted, admins, of course, step in on the player's behalf and if worthy of an actual punishment, do get gagged/muted. However, when a player insults an admin, some actually become overzealous enough to treat it as a capital offence and ban the player.

Could the whole admin disrespect be removed as a thing in general as treating it differently than a simple case of insulting another player is ludicrous?

you mean removing the reason?

 

[Zeprus]

In my opinion insulting/disrespecting an admin is worth a harder punishment as it's not only incredible stupid, as long as you know the person is an admin, but it's also like you say "I literally don't care about the rules and whoever tries to enforce them is just (insert said insult here)." Wich means for me the player doesn't accept the rules, his insulting is beyond rage and he does not care about a light punishment.

 

[MercyOnly]

If a well known non-admin member of the community ,who's reported people and informed admins of rulebreakers, was insulted, would you make an exception and treat it as a higher level of disrespect? No? Then don't treat yourself as any different.

The problem with admin disrespect is that it just doesn't cover insulting - it is sometimes used as an excuse to ban people when an admin does not like that someone's giving them advice on how to do their job ( depends on how the advice is voiced, but regardless ).

As Madact had posted - why is the average time for admin disrespect 4x what the usual length is for insulting? Are admins that sensitive that they feel 4x insulted than the average player?

I was insulted numerous times when I was doing my job, yet I always treated it as a simple insult because I'm really no different than the average player.

@Kevin Remove the reason as a whole because giving such a privilege makes the gap between a normal player and an admin wider.

TL;DR : Punish for breaking the rule of "No insulting". Unless you're that sensitive IRL to be personally insulted by an anonymous donkey somewhere in Europe, you should not even use "Admin disrespect" as a reason.

 

[Madact]

I agree with the removal of the admin disrespect reason from the reason list when selected, but this in turn does not solve the problem.

Admins can still make a bias decision based on if the insulted was directed by them or to others. As bans are still flexible with no real fixed guideline and with no monitor to check to make sure each admin is still being considerate with how lengthy there bans are, it will just move to the insulting reason and we'll see the influx of weird 1 day bans, 1 hour bans and so forth.

With the removal, most likely this will calm down, but there is still that possibility. It will all boil down to if someone on the staff team monitors the Comms and Bans.
But I'm sure our team will be sure to give out fair bans to certain individuals. If not, players can make appeals about it if they feel it's too lengthy. Also admins can be noted on such thing if someone notices a strange pattern towards this.

We just need better organization skills. If people are willing to put in the time to help out...and that's a little bit difficult these days. I can always keep an eye out, but I'm only one person.

Plus I don't want to see new guidelines handing out to follow on every single rule breaking punishment length. More rules makes it stressful.

 

[yeldarb_notsop]

I know I'm probably not overly popular with some people here, and I've been playing on your vsh server for some time now and haven't experienced any admin disrespect bans first hand, but I agree with @Hawwis . Admins in a community are here to enforce rules and make sure everyone is having a fair and fun time, but are still apart of the players. So why would insulting said player, who enforces the rules make you an exception from the 'fair rules'. The way I see it is, admin rank for some reason makes you more of an important person than a regular player, but if you didn't have players and only admins you wouldn't have a community. Players are just as important as admins are and should get treated with the same amount of respect and guide lines as the admins, although it should still be left up to the admins to hand out the punishment as they have been selected to do so. If you either change player insulting to the same time as an admin insult ban or vice versa, it's up to you, but I believe it should be the same either way.

 

[inu]

Unpopular Inu post incoming, it's been a long time lads, how are ya?

Admins can still make a bias decision based on if the insulted was directed by them or to others.

Aka they can play the pussy with the badge, disgusting.

As bans are still flexible with no real fixed guideline and with no monitor to check to make sure each admin is still being considerate with how lengthy there bans are, it will just move to the insulting reason and we'll see the influx of weird 1 day bans, 1 hour bans and so forth.

Monitors are not needed for such puny things if one hires a competent team. You are basically admitting that some of you need their hand hold and should therefore not be allowed to issue bans at their own consent.

With the removal, most likely this will calm down, but there is still that possibility. It will all boil down to if someone on the staff team monitors the Comms and Bans.

Or you guys could start to realize that "admin disrespect" does not exist and that offensive language and verbal abuse is a flexible topic, you can not add static to it. There are several factors such as:
a) how many people were abused
b) the form of the verbal abuse(simple insults towards in-game conduct such as skill or fairness, personal insults, racial and ethnic insults etc.)
c) the amount of the verbal abuse
d) did the abuse continue despite vocal attempts to stop it
and so on and so forth.

We just need better organization skills. If people are willing to put in the time to help out...and that's a little bit difficult these days. I can always keep an eye out, but I'm only one person.

Put those skills to use where they are needed instead of wasting them here.

Plus I don't want to see new guidelines handing out to follow on every single rule breaking punishment length. More rules makes it stressful.

Good guidelines = No stress
Fucking stupid guidelines = Tons of stress

You get the point.

I totally understand that you would like to avoid situations like these in the future by somehow controlling them, Madact, but this has nothing to do with control. The issue are the members among the staff who have absolutely 0 social skills and their only way of communicating is through their very very important title. Of course they put themselves above all because they are below all as soon as their turn off their computer.

I don't know if you're referring to my ban, today, since it's the 2nd most recent ban for disrespecting and insulting an admin.
He disrespected not only players but also me, and in general had a rather inappropriate choice of language, as he started insulting me with homophobic insults.

Tip of the fucking iceberg.

Notice how he calls himself "admin" but suddenly the insults are not only directed to the imaginary "admin" role, but magically also to him as a person.

What you may have done might be close to correct procedure but fucking boasting yourself with being the admin and someone disrespecting your self-confidence-jerk-off-title is a pretty pathetic representation of representing @Kevin and the community he made. "Welcome to the Panda Community, where the admin says all and you are a little shit !"

Ever since the senior admin event you guys seem to have developed an addiction to controlling and regulating everything you can, but what you seem to have forgotten is that each and every one of you is a player like anyone else.

Sure, getting disrespected is basically a part of being on the internet, however as Madact said, I believe insulting an admin who presents the best of the community, is disrespecting the whole community, and people need to show some respect to the community they're playing on, although that rarely happens.

But eh, I don't know if 1 day is too long or not, but I still stick to my opinion, about insulting the admins gives a longer punishment.

A big fuck off to you as a person, not to your entitlement-rank, buddy




Thank god @Hawwis is a real nigguh.

 

[OxyGenE]

in my opinion. an admin is like a police officer, you are not here to control and rule the server but to make sure rules are respected and if not: punish. but an admin is also the representative of the community on the server. insulting someone making sure the server is ok an trying to keep the server as enjoyable as he possibly can for the good of all players.

in my eyes if you insult an admin (trial, gameserver, senior, owner):
1°) you insult a representative of the community so you insult the community itself.
2°) you insult someone working to make the server a better place
3°) you insult someone working for players.

i think admin disrespect should be more severe than disrespecting a player.

 

[EvoWarrior5]

One distinction needs to be made clear here. What I consider admin disrespect as falling under a distinct rule is not "this guy is an admin so if you insult him in any way, that is admin disrespect". What I consider "admin disrespect" is in the sense that someone disrespects an admin that explicitly relates to administrative business. Illustrated:

"You are shit at this game, go die" - not admin disrespect, just insulting
"lol why did you ban for that, you're a piece of crap admin" - admin disrespect

I don't know how many people in this thread had this distinction in mind or if everyone uniformly considered any insult towards an admin to be admin disrespect. Make sure you have the difference between the two clear in your head, because there is a big difference in what constitutes taking a jab at a person who so happens to be an admin, or taking a jab at an admin in the second sense that also makes it a jab at the rules and the community as a whole.

 

[Hellboy]

Having Inu here is like saying 'Yo, we need hella more drama, but since Inu is Inu, we can allow him to be the one who has the right to use some fucking disgusting language towards other people, without coming with positive critism'. Inu, why the fuck do you gotta be so rude?
Like seriously, do you get some kind of rush and do you feel better for your own sorry ass for pin-pointing other peoples mistakes? And why are you even here, you pop on every once in a while and just acts like a complete asshole while doing it. You're not even administrating on any server.

And what I meant by saying 'He disrespected not only players but also me' was that he also disrespected other players, upon disrespecting me. I'm sorry that my English isn't 10/10 but you should seriously calm the fuck down, keyboard warrior.

And since you complain so much about 'admin disrespect', why don't you create some guidelines? Since you're unsatisfied and you're a forum administrator, should you create such things for us, since apparently we're not capable enough ourselves to find out how to do things.

 

[Schildkröte]

ATTENTION! This is not a dig at any member of the panda community staff, this is merely expressing my opinion on the situation at hand - I am not intending to provoke anyone.






I love how it's suddenly gone away from the threads actual purpose; to debate whether or not "admin disrespect" should exist or not as a rule in panda community.


There is no such thing as "admin disrespect"
Being an administrator is a role, a role is not a life-form, but a job you do.
Therefore, you cannot disrespect the role as a role cannot act, or portray anything by itself, as it requires somebody to carry out the work the role describes.

This immediately disproves the concept of "admin disrespect" however also brings in the necessity for an overall view of disrespect towards the other people, whether they are a staff member or not, as disrespect is not multiplied towards a person whether they have a shiny prefix on their name or not, calling a person who is a staff member a bad player, and calling a person who plays on the server a bad player will have the same effect on the person's feelings, therefore meaning more severe punishments for disrespecting people who are administrators are unnecessary, and are merely existent for the player with administration powers to reinforce their position in the hierarchy amongst the other people in the server, in the sense of "don't mess with me, or you'll have it coming to you" which is obviously not needed, as if panda is the community with the best servers, the playerbase of panda community will know that disrespect is wrong, and that they shouldn't disrespect anyone, and that if they do disrespect a person whether they are sporting the badge or not, this exemplar member of the panda community will know that the disrespect they just committed is breaking the rules, and there will be a consequence upon this member of panda community.

A note respecting evo's post. Say you were told your moderator skills were shit, that is a comment about your role as a moderator, but is all in all directed to you. You. That is disrespect to a person playing on panda community. That is breaking the rule of disrespect and no other rules

The scenario in the paragraph written above, in most peoples minds in the thread would suffice as enough to be deemed "admin disrespect" yet in reality, if the moderator/admin/staff member-person could see past the blazing flames of their power, then maybe they would understand that it is only directed at them, not at EVERYBODY IN THE SERVER BECAUSE THE STAFF PEOPLE ENFORCE THE RULES AND BY DISRESPECTING A STAFF MEMBER YOU DISRESPECT THE RULES, SO YOU ALSO INSULT THE COMMUNITY WHO ABIDES BY THE RULES, WHICH CONSTITUTES AS "ADMIN DISRESPECT. In reality all adding more protocols to punish players is doing is elevating the staff members god complex, which is unnecessary as it will lead to a point where people are scared of the admins, as one slight move could end that player's time on the server.

To conclude, I vouch for the rules of "admin disrespect" to be removed, and to be replaced with an overall rule of general disrespect because as mentioned above, "admin disrespect" doesn't exist, and although inu did use strong language in his post, the general motive of his post is shipping what I am also vouching for.

 

[Joe]

Having Inu here is like saying 'Yo, we need hella more drama, but since Inu is Inu, we can allow him to be the one who has the right to use some fucking disgusting language towards other people, without coming with positive critism'. Inu, why the fuck do you gotta be so rude?
Like seriously, do you get some kind of rush and do you feel better for your own sorry ass for pin-pointing other peoples mistakes? And why are you even here, you pop on every once in a while and just acts like a complete asshole while doing it. You're not even administrating on any server.

And what I meant by saying 'He disrespected not only players but also me' was that he also disrespected other players, upon disrespecting me. I'm sorry that my English isn't 10/10 but you should seriously calm the fuck down, keyboard warrior.

And since you complain so much about 'admin disrespect', why don't you create some guidelines? Since you're unsatisfied and you're a forum administrator, should you create such things for us, since apparently we're not capable enough ourselves to find out how to do things.

 

[TEXASSTYLE]

To be honest EVERYTHING I would've said has already been said/written. An admin is someone representing the community meaning they have to show their best side showing that this community's rules are nothing to fuck with. If someone insults this person who are dedicating their team upon trying to make it better for everyone else playing on the server, Well, I have some mixed thoughts abt that.

* they insulted the representative who dedicated bla bla bla. Meaning this person should deserve a more severe punishment in some way as they technicly "insulted the community"

* However, an admin is just a normal player with more acess to the shizzuh meaning you are still a somewhat normal player. adding towards giving someone insulting an admin a normal punishment as this person would have gotten if they insulted someone else.

* the part with insulting the community by insulting an admin is however, slightly the wrong idea. the admin is "a gear in the machinery" but what makes sure these gears are spinning is the majority of the community. The Players.
meaning something such as "insulting the community by insulting an admin" doesn't work that easily. you insult the community if you insult anyone playing on the community or is a part of it in some other kind of way.

To be honest. these are the things I could figure out based on the posts from you guys have done.

And I see more adding towards treating "admin disrespect" as a normal insult. Unless it's something mocking how the admin is performing his or her duty I'd see it like le insultz.


And seriously Inu. Seriously... Insults Plz?

 

[inu]

Having Inu here is like saying 'Yo, we need hella more drama, but since Inu is Inu, we can allow him to be the one who has the right to use some fucking disgusting language towards other people, without coming with positive critism'.

I never asked for any bias towards me and never will. If you see the way I conduct myself unfitting of the situation, you are free to report my post and escalate it to the higher authority.

Like seriously, do you get some kind of rush and do you feel better for your own sorry ass for pin-pointing other peoples mistakes? And why are you even here, you pop on every once in a while and just acts like a complete asshole while doing it. You're not even administrating on any server.

I am mainly a developer, not a forum or server admin, all though I quick-switch into every role needed. I am here to develop new features and to be the voice of the voiceless, who are afraid to say the things I say in the way I say them. I am not ashamed to conduct myself the way I see fit, whether you find it disgusting or not.
What I am not here for is to get along with anyone. I consider a bunch of people here friends, the rest consists of people who I do not know and people who I do not want to know(such as yourself).

As for the asshole part. Am I an asshole because I prefer to add to a discussion by stating facts and speaking out my opinions to the point where others dare not go instead of being a "+1 great application friendo!"-fag? Go make your own mind up about it, we obviously are not even on the same page.

And what I meant by saying 'He disrespected not only players but also me' was that he also disrespected other players, upon disrespecting me. I'm sorry that my English isn't 10/10 but you should seriously calm the fuck down, keyboard warrior.

Then how about you say it that way instead of making up excuses after? Your english seems just fine to me.

And since you complain so much about 'admin disrespect', why don't you create some guidelines? Since you're unsatisfied and you're a forum administrator, should you create such things for us, since apparently we're not capable enough ourselves to find out how to do things.

While I am able to create such guides, I am not going to interfere with the senior-circlejerk. Also since when are forum admins responsible for managing staff efficiency?


As for the rest of your post: You are literally a fucking idiot, now go ahead and report this, scrutinize me, try to dig up something about my real life so you can claim I am such a sad, sorry-assed loser, or just accept the fact that I don't like you based entirely on the way you conduct yourself here.

I am amused every time someone steps up to me and calls me rude. You are the same cunts that like my posts when I make fun of others but when you are the target, you are trying to play the abuse card. If that's not the saddest part about all of this then I really don't know.


To those of you who understand my posts, power to you!
To those who don't, don't read them, report them, judge me as a person for them or even insult me back, I don't care because I am not going to throw rocks and not expect to get any thrown back at me. Fair game.

 

[mosteraz]

what?

 

[Joe]

This thread is so offtopic. Can we close it before it becomes World war 3?