Completed Players taking action against stealers (1 Viewer)

[klay]

Continuing from here.

Based on that suggestion and my experiences it seems like players would appreciate it if they could deal with stealers, the one of the most obnoxious rulebreakers in dodgeball (at least in eu (^: ), when the admins don't respond to the calls. The following system proposed in the previous thread seemed somewhat popular.

Allowing votekick on stealing players

If a player meets at least on of the following conditions, the possibility of using votekick on the player is enabled:

• Player stole at least 5(?) times during the current map
• Player stole at least 3(?) times in a short amount of time (60 sec?)
• Player is a registered sex offender
• Player's nickname is exactly TBotV63

Once on of those conditions is met, any player may call votekick on the stealer. If the yes votes exceeds 50% the stealer will receive a short (5-15 min?) unlogged ban. If it's possible to integrate with sourcebans player is banned across all servers, if not the player is only banned from the current server (handled by the plugin?).

Detection of walling players(?)

Should be possible to achieve with fairly good accuracy to minimize the amount of false positives. However, this will require more coding, testing, etc. This would also reduce the abusability of the system.

Anything marked with a question mark is up for debate and I'm looking for feedback on those. Any additional ideas are also welcome.

 

[TBotV63]

Player's nickname is exactly TBotV63

Wow that's mean

Detection of walling players(?)

Should be possible to achieve with fairly good accuracy to minimize the amount of false positives. However, this will require more coding, testing, etc. This would also reduce the abusability of the system.

So I've been thinking about this one for quite a bit. It would almost certainly require there to be some sort of timer on players' movement. Simply checking the distance between players won't suffice, as most annoying stealers get in really close. Probably if players haven't moved within the last idk, seven, seconds and they are within a certain range of the rocket owner we could let it pass?
There could of course be some sort of complex system with commands to set who you're walling with etc., but I think that would convolute walling to the point where noone would do it anymore / noone would use the system, which defeats the entire point.

Player stole at least 3(?) times in a short amount of time (60 sec?)

Maybe during one round instead of some arbitrary amount of time?

EDIT: I would increase the time anyway and a round is usually longer than 60 seconds, so we might aswell just use the duration of a round as it's more natural. (And of course easier to track)

Once on of those conditions is met, any player may call votekick on the stealer. If the yes votes exceeds 50% the stealer will receive a short (5-15 min?) unlogged ban. If it's possible to integrate with sourcebans player is banned across all servers, if not the player is only banned from the current server (handled by the plugin?).

We could either integrate with sourcebans (but I don't know of any way of bypassing the logging) or we could bypass sourcebans altogether, but that would most likely make it a per-server setup.

 

[klay]

Most of the time walling players crouch. So imo both players crouching and being close to each other is a pretty good satisfactory but not necessary condition and is more than nothing. As for when they are not crouching they need to be pretty close and indeed have to barely or not move at all. A system with commands is pointless I think.

3 steals during a round sounds better.

I actually wouldn't mind logging these short bans so we can keep track. If someone is getting votekicked a lot we could take action and give them a harsher ban. The only reason against this that I can think of that it will make it annoying the check for previous bans.

 

[Shad]

yes.

 

[Cryptic]

Once on of those conditions is met, any player may call votekick on the stealer. If the yes votes exceeds 50% the stealer will receive a short (5-15 min?) unlogged ban. If it's possible to integrate with sourcebans player is banned across all servers, if not the player is only banned from the current server (handled by the plugin?).

I was leaning towards this idea; however, I found a major flaw. Let's take a look at this scenario:

TBot, a hacker, joins the server, and several calls are made against him. Like any hacker, TBot steals a shit ton of rockets, allowing players to vote to temporarily ban him. Players toggle the vote and the vote's passed 'cause no one likes hackers. A few minutes later, I join the server to handle the call, record a demo, and permanently ban him. When I join the server, I'm informed that he was temporarily banned. Chances are, TBot won't return promptly after his ban expired; he'd be more cautious, knowing players can temporarily ban him. Because of this, a hacker gets away, and will return later on.

 

[Shad]

just dont let people voteban, let them votekick stealers, thats all.

 

[Cryptic]

just dont let people voteban, let them votekick stealers, thats all.

We already established the idea that votekicking does nothing 'cause stealers can simply join back.

 

[Shad]

oh sorry, i was ignorant again. But it aint a bad thing tho, the stealer gets kicked multiple times until he gets annoyed and just doesnt come at all or an admin manages to come and ban him.

 

[Madact]

Hey that means I can go on dodgeball and let the players do the work for me!

Cheers to that!

 

[Shad]

im fine with that

 

[Goliath]

oh sorry, i was ignorant again. But it aint a bad thing tho, the stealer gets kicked multiple times until he gets annoyed and just doesnt come at all or an admin manages to come and ban him.

Make a vote, kick the stealer, *he joins back* *he steals those 5 times* make a vote, kick him again, *he rejoins*...
It would be more annoying for who wants the stealer out than for the stealer himself.

The idea of this vote is when there is no admin online or no admin that can join the server while there is a situation like that, so we are supposing that right now the only thing avaible is the vote.

 

[Shad]

but it still would be a nice thing for people to votekick them

 

[klay]

I was leaning towards this idea; however, I found a major flaw. Let's take a look at this scenario:

TBot, a hacker, joins the server, and several calls are made against him. Like any hacker, TBot steals a shit ton of rockets, allowing players to vote to temporarily ban him. Players toggle the vote and the vote's passed 'cause no one likes hackers. A few minutes later, I join the server to handle the call, record a demo, and permanently ban him. When I join the server, I'm informed that he was temporarily banned. Chances are, TBot won't return promptly after his ban expired; he'd be more cautious, knowing players can temporarily ban him. Because of this, a hacker gets away, and will return later on.

Good point. But I wouldn't necessarily call this a major flaw. The players would be glad they can get rid of a hacker when the admin doesn't respond in time. No hackers go unnoticed and uncaught on dodgeball as it is pretty easy to tell. If they are being cautious you just have more time to get him before the players vote him off again. Imo most of the hackers don't come back. I don't think that this flaw would be such a deal breaker that we couldn't implement a try out a system like this. If it doesn't work we can just disable it with a push of a button.

Also I like how we always use TBot as a bad example.

 

[Goliath]

Good point. But I wouldn't necessarily call this a major flaw. The players would be glad they can get rid of a hacker when the admin doesn't respond in time. No hackers go unnoticed and uncaught on dodgeball as it is pretty easy to tell. If they are being cautious you just have more time to get him before the players vote him off again. Imo most of the hackers don't come back. I don't think that this flaw would be such a deal breaker that we couldn't implement a try out a system like this. If it doesn't work we can just disable it with a push of a button.

Also I like how we always use TBot as a bad example.

Isn't it possible to just ban the steam ID?
Instead of hunting like that I mean

 

[klay]

Isn't it possible to just ban the steam ID?
Instead of hunting like that I mean

What do you mean? Every ban ingame is by steam ID. The problem here is if the hackers get banned by the plugin for 5-15 minutes, they may get away without getting a permanent one.

 

[Goliath]

What do you mean? Every ban ingame is by steam ID. The problem here is if the hackers get banned by the plugin for 5-15 minutes, they may get away without getting a permanent one.

Ban directly a steam ID, doing that the one you wanna ban doesn't need to be present on the server, for example,
TBotV63 hacked for an amount of time, you join too late, you can't ban him using his nickname because he left the server.
So you ban using his steam ID instead of the nickname, I don't remember the command to do that but it may be possibly sm_banid [Steam ID] [Time]

 

[klay]

Ban directly a steam ID, doing that the one you wanna ban doesn't need to be present on the server, for example,
TBotV63 hacked for an amount of time, you join too late, you can't ban him using his nickname because he left the server.
So you ban using his steam ID instead of the nickname, I don't remember the command to do that but it may be possibly sm_banid [Steam ID] [Time]

We can do web bans but only with evidence. Without any, tough luck.

 

[mrbooooom]

Love the idea!

Thanks, Klay, for bringing this up!

IMO votekick will not do much though. Especially the trolls and serious stealers will reconnect right away.

I think it should be at least a one hour ban.
voteban could be enabled after maybe 10 steals during one map?
why so generous? because I think this should be only an option for hard core stealers. there should be enough room to warn newbies etc
An if you make voteban too easy it will be abused.

I generally would trust players not to call a vote on ppl who are obviously walling or helping RTD-disabled mates..
Rules should be adjusted though to make clear, that walling is only tolerated at the back of a map and not in the middle...


If vote-banned this ban should not show up on the source ban history.
But it would be useful if some kind of log is created so admins can have a look later, especially if somebody gets votebanned several times...

cheers
Booooom


.

 

[klay]

I will slowly start working on this, things like threshold and ban length are still up for debate.

 

[ekin]

Glad we can votekick TBot now, great idea.